FX1000/Z5 compared to the Z7

Ken Ross · December 23rd, 2008, 09:49 PM

Gary, I downloaded the 25p clip and after putting it in my Edius 5 software, I output the clip to my Canon HV20. From there I was able to play it on my 60" Pioneer plasma via HDMI and the results were superb!

This was a far cry from the original clip you posted the other day (the worst case scenario). In fact, this was the first time I've seen 25p (or any progressive clip) play beautifully without any significant stutter! It was probably the closest I've seen to that elusive 'film look' from a videocamera.

It seems like the 1000 has very nice color & dynamic range and the sharpness & resolution appear excellent.

BTW, no pixellization on the downloaded clip.

Gary Beaman · December 24th, 2008, 04:51 AM

I haven't even began to explore all the picture profile settings yet. There is so many tweaks, finally Sony has decided not to cripple a prosumer camera like they did with the FX1's firmware. There is now very little difference between the Z5 and the FX1000's software so if you don't need XLR inputs the FX1000 is excellent value for money IMHO.

Ron Evans · December 24th, 2008, 01:04 PM

Gary. The Z5 says it has shockless gain and WB . I assume changes by switching these do not appear abrupt but change gradually . Does the Fx1000 have this action for the gain control ( I don't really care about WB but shockless gain changes would be very useful.

Ron Evans

Gary Beaman · December 24th, 2008, 02:38 PM

In auto mode the gain adjusts smoothly. It's only in manual mode when you change the gain switch that the gain 'jumps'. I believe this is where the Z5 shockless gain feature ramps up or down the gain to smooth this out. A non-issue for me as I have no need to manually change gain during recording mid-shot. If I want to do this I just set it to auto and let the cam do it smoothly.

Ron Evans · December 24th, 2008, 02:50 PM

I shoot in theater mainly so aim to get the iris in the middle ranges around F4 to maximize depth of field on stage. Can't let anything in auto as this will overexpose the scene so usually set the gain at 6db or 9db on my FX1 to get into this iris range. I think the more I look at these two cameras the Z5 will be more useful to me for the shockless feature, XLR and the ability to clip on the MRC1 unit. Just have to save a little longer!!! My actual desire would be for an AVCHD unit to compete with the Panasonic HMC150 that records at 1920x1080 to match my SR11 that I am very impressed with for the money.

Ron Evans

Gary Beaman · December 24th, 2008, 02:54 PM

If you can afford the Z5 I say go for it! For those like me that can't - I can live with it. I didn't have smooth gain on my FX1 so I won't miss it on the FX1000. The FX1000 is a real upgrade to the FX1, I am a very happy chappy!

William Ellwood · December 25th, 2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Gary. The Z5 says it has shockless gain and WB . I assume changes by switching these do not appear abrupt but change gradually . Does the Fx1000 have this action for the gain control ( I don't really care about WB but shockless gain changes would be very useful.

Can anyone tell me what shockless gain is, and what benefit it is.

Seasonal Cheers.

Ken Ross · December 25th, 2008, 07:57 PM

Bill, the 'shockless' part of it is simply a smooth ramping from point A to point B. So that if you had two chosen white balances, the cam would smooth ramp from your first to second white balance as opposed to a sudden switch.

The same thing would be true for gain, a smooth, gradual change from your first gain value to your 2nd.

Ron Evans · December 25th, 2008, 09:38 PM

As Ken said. If you have the gain setting on the camera set to 0, 3, 9. and while shooting at 3 the scene got very dark ( often happens in the theatre) one could switch to 9 and the camera would smoothly change to the 9db setting rather than abruptly switch to 9db. Same in the other direction. To avoid this now I often run my FX1 with higher gain than I would use if I had a shockless switch since changing the iris is smoother yet still keeps me in the iris range I want of around F4 + for max depth of field on stage.

Ron Evans

William Ellwood · December 26th, 2008, 07:29 AM

Thanks guys. I think I've got to go for the Z5 after hearing that. I was almost convinced anyhow to go straight to the Z5, rather than plum for a FX1000.

I don't understand how to get the best from its progressive options - never used any of them- but there are so many other benefits that I can see for this cam (bolt-on media recorder option, XLR and all the audio controls, hi-gain mic included, and now also a shockless gain feature).

I'm not worried about the cmos rolling shutter; its problems would be minimal for me.

Ken Ross · December 28th, 2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Beaman

If you can afford the Z5 I say go for it! For those like me that can't - I can live with it. I didn't have smooth gain on my FX1 so I won't miss it on the FX1000. The FX1000 is a real upgrade to the FX1, I am a very happy chappy!

One way you can achieve 'shockless' WB & gain with the FX1000 (if I"m interpreting the manual properly) is to use the shot transition feature. That should enable a smooth ramp from point A to point B over a user determined amount of time. Of course you would need to plan for this in advance.

I'm assuming the Z5 does this by simply changing values on the fly.

Sean Seah · December 28th, 2008, 12:30 PM

I just completed a test shootout in the dark bet the Z5, FX1 and EX1. Well well, I m pretty stumped by the Z5's performance. It almost equals out the EX1 although the diff in the chip size. The video scope tells it all.

The FX1 is not the best guy to pit the Z5 but the diff is significant. I'll post the link here tomorrow when the video is done.

William Ellwood · December 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM

It sounds interesting to compare these three for performance in low light. I've seen a some stills from a low-light test with a VX-A1 and some rivals, but I intend to purchase a Z5 asap, so I will keep checking for round-ups/reviews in the meantime.
I would guess the FX1 finds it the hardest to keep up.

Ron Evans · December 28th, 2008, 01:45 PM

I have had my FX1 since they first came out and at the time was thrilled with the picture, still like it. Comparisons with my SR11 in good light now though make me wish for an AVCHD version of the Z5. The SR11 pictures are clean and sharp and pop out on my Panasonic Plasma. Story is different when lighting gets difficult. It is after all about 1/5 the price of the FX1!!! I will wait and see what comes this year. At the moment the Z5 is top of the list.

Ron Evans

December 26th, 2008, 07:29 AM	#25
William Ellwood Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Consett UK Posts: 110	Thanks guys. I think I've got to go for the Z5 after hearing that. I was almost convinced anyhow to go straight to the Z5, rather than plum for a FX1000. I don't understand how to get the best from its progressive options - never used any of them- but there are so many other benefits that I can see for this cam (bolt-on media recorder option, XLR and all the audio controls, hi-gain mic included, and now also a shockless gain feature). I'm not worried about the cmos rolling shutter; its problems would be minimal for me. __________________ Billy Ellwood is on Vimeo. Film club www.newcastleaca.co.uk i7 7700k, Asus z270f, 32gb ram, Windows 10, Premiere CS6.

December 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM	#28
William Ellwood Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Consett UK Posts: 110	It sounds interesting to compare these three for performance in low light. I've seen a some stills from a low-light test with a VX-A1 and some rivals, but I intend to purchase a Z5 asap, so I will keep checking for round-ups/reviews in the meantime. I would guess the FX1 finds it the hardest to keep up. __________________ Billy Ellwood is on Vimeo. Film club www.newcastleaca.co.uk i7 7700k, Asus z270f, 32gb ram, Windows 10, Premiere CS6.

December 23rd, 2008, 09:49 PM	#16
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Gary, I downloaded the 25p clip and after putting it in my Edius 5 software, I output the clip to my Canon HV20. From there I was able to play it on my 60" Pioneer plasma via HDMI and the results were superb! This was a far cry from the original clip you posted the other day (the worst case scenario). In fact, this was the first time I've seen 25p (or any progressive clip) play beautifully without any significant stutter! It was probably the closest I've seen to that elusive 'film look' from a videocamera. It seems like the 1000 has very nice color & dynamic range and the sharpness & resolution appear excellent. BTW, no pixellization on the downloaded clip.

December 24th, 2008, 04:51 AM	#17
Gary Beaman New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 11	I haven't even began to explore all the picture profile settings yet. There is so many tweaks, finally Sony has decided not to cripple a prosumer camera like they did with the FX1's firmware. There is now very little difference between the Z5 and the FX1000's software so if you don't need XLR inputs the FX1000 is excellent value for money IMHO.

December 24th, 2008, 01:04 PM	#18
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Gary. The Z5 says it has shockless gain and WB . I assume changes by switching these do not appear abrupt but change gradually . Does the Fx1000 have this action for the gain control ( I don't really care about WB but shockless gain changes would be very useful. Ron Evans

December 24th, 2008, 02:38 PM	#19
Gary Beaman New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 11	In auto mode the gain adjusts smoothly. It's only in manual mode when you change the gain switch that the gain 'jumps'. I believe this is where the Z5 shockless gain feature ramps up or down the gain to smooth this out. A non-issue for me as I have no need to manually change gain during recording mid-shot. If I want to do this I just set it to auto and let the cam do it smoothly.

December 24th, 2008, 02:50 PM	#20
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I shoot in theater mainly so aim to get the iris in the middle ranges around F4 to maximize depth of field on stage. Can't let anything in auto as this will overexpose the scene so usually set the gain at 6db or 9db on my FX1 to get into this iris range. I think the more I look at these two cameras the Z5 will be more useful to me for the shockless feature, XLR and the ability to clip on the MRC1 unit. Just have to save a little longer!!! My actual desire would be for an AVCHD unit to compete with the Panasonic HMC150 that records at 1920x1080 to match my SR11 that I am very impressed with for the money. Ron Evans

December 24th, 2008, 02:54 PM	#21
Gary Beaman New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 11	If you can afford the Z5 I say go for it! For those like me that can't - I can live with it. I didn't have smooth gain on my FX1 so I won't miss it on the FX1000. The FX1000 is a real upgrade to the FX1, I am a very happy chappy!

December 25th, 2008, 07:57 PM	#23
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Bill, the 'shockless' part of it is simply a smooth ramping from point A to point B. So that if you had two chosen white balances, the cam would smooth ramp from your first to second white balance as opposed to a sudden switch. The same thing would be true for gain, a smooth, gradual change from your first gain value to your 2nd.

December 25th, 2008, 09:38 PM	#24
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	As Ken said. If you have the gain setting on the camera set to 0, 3, 9. and while shooting at 3 the scene got very dark ( often happens in the theatre) one could switch to 9 and the camera would smoothly change to the 9db setting rather than abruptly switch to 9db. Same in the other direction. To avoid this now I often run my FX1 with higher gain than I would use if I had a shockless switch since changing the iris is smoother yet still keeps me in the iris range I want of around F4 + for max depth of field on stage. Ron Evans

December 28th, 2008, 12:30 PM	#27
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	I just completed a test shootout in the dark bet the Z5, FX1 and EX1. Well well, I m pretty stumped by the Z5's performance. It almost equals out the EX1 although the diff in the chip size. The video scope tells it all. The FX1 is not the best guy to pit the Z5 but the diff is significant. I'll post the link here tomorrow when the video is done.

December 28th, 2008, 01:45 PM	#29
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I have had my FX1 since they first came out and at the time was thrilled with the picture, still like it. Comparisons with my SR11 in good light now though make me wish for an AVCHD version of the Z5. The SR11 pictures are clean and sharp and pop out on my Panasonic Plasma. Story is different when lighting gets difficult. It is after all about 1/5 the price of the FX1!!! I will wait and see what comes this year. At the moment the Z5 is top of the list. Ron Evans