Componet Out Resolution at DVinfo.net

Greg Patch · March 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM

What is the resolution on the componet out jack on the Z1. Is it 1440x1080 or 1920x1080?

Boyd Ostroff · March 13th, 2007, 11:53 AM

The HDV 1080i spec is 1440x1080 anamorphic, but it is stretched to 1920x1080 for output. But this is also affected by a menu setting which allows you to choose 1080i50, 1080i60, 480i60, 480p30, 576i50 or 576p25 on the Z1.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 13th, 2007, 11:55 AM

Boyd answered your question, but to be sure it's clear, it's 1920 x 1080 on the component output.

Greg Patch · March 13th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Boyd answered your question, but to be sure it's clear, it's 1920 x 1080 on the component output.

I have a few questions:

So live out of the camera would be considered uncompressed?

So playing back from tape is what out of the componet out?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 13th, 2007, 12:16 PM

Live out of the camera is uncompressed.
Component out post-tape/recording is uncompressed, but the stream has already been compressed.

Put another way, playing a VHS tape out of a component output is also uncompressed, but the media was compressed when it was put onto tape, therefore compressing it for storage.
Uncompressed does not=great quality, unless the source was never compressed to begin with.

Live output is pre-HDV compression.

Greg Patch · March 13th, 2007, 12:37 PM

Thank you for your quick response, I am debating a coworker on these issues as I type. There is much confusion over here. On another note, is HD-SDI considered a better output source that componet output. HD SDI is still an analog signal correct?

Vincent Rozenberg · March 13th, 2007, 01:01 PM

SDI stands for Serial Digital Interface... So figure out... ;-)

Daniel Apollon · March 17th, 2007, 05:31 AM

I'm still in doubt:

Is the high def component signal from the Sony Z1:

1. a signal which decompressed an already HDV-compressed signal - with, followingly, little or no real advantage, compared with the Firewire HDV signal sent from tape,

OR

2. a non-compressed signal sent directly from the AD circuitry BEFORE HDV compression

OR

3. ...any other variant?

Please enlighten me !!

Vincent Rozenberg · March 17th, 2007, 07:06 AM

It is before HDV compression. So better then via the firewire out, if you do it live. During playback not, then you get the HDV materia as it is on tape, so compressed.

Daniel Apollon · March 20th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Douglas and Vincent seem to confirm that LIVE HD output from the Sony Z1 is uncompressed and, therefore, so much better.

Have any of you guys out there EVER tested thoroughly LIVE HD output from the Z1 and compared it with the HDV signal over Firewire? It would be nice to hear how such comparison has been achieved (capture card, capture software and subsequent testing).

Otherwise the assertion may be based on "hearsay" or "subjective impression"....

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 20th, 2007, 02:39 PM

This is a subject of HUGE discussion around the world. It's how folks like Scott Billups shoot some of their work, it's why companies like Wafian and CineForm partnered up to create uncompressed input to lightly compressed codecs in a box, it's why Black Magic sells cards and boxes, along with AJA and Bluefish.
Yes, it's been done, tested, discussed a lot. All you need is an HDSDI card if you have an SDI converter from someone like Convergent Design, or a component input card such as an AJA. You can not only see the difference immediately, but the difference range in color grading is significant as well.

I do believe that if you search around the image galleries here, you can compare the two.

Daniel Apollon · March 20th, 2007, 02:46 PM

Thanks Douglas. The Scott Billups reference might be true for the Canon XL H1 HDV cam (see:http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL...study_01.shtml) . But what about the Sony Z1 Live HD output compared with the XLH1 ?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 20th, 2007, 03:03 PM

now you're asking a different question, one of opinion and not fact. I'll leave that one to others.
*all* HDV, and almost all DV camcorders offer a pre-compression, 4:2:2 output. Nothing new, nothing different, been that way for many years now.
In any case, *any* time you can avoid compression, it's a better quality image.

Giroud Francois · March 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM

since canon uses 1440x1080 sensor, it should be better than the 960x1080 from the sony.
currently, capturing HD component or HD-SDI is very expensive.(needs oversized PC, big processor, fast raid disk, expensive capture card)
you can do a lot cheaper with capturing HDMI with the Intensity (250$) card and a good coded like cineform.
component to HDMI converters come for cheap also (less than 200$) while component to HD-SDI are over 700$.
My opinion is if you shoot HDV (on tape) correctly (good light, tripod, slow move) you would see only marginal improvement going direct component capture.
If you are really looking for the best, renting an XD cam with superior optics will really make the difference.

March 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM	#1
Greg Patch Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 181	Componet Out Resolution What is the resolution on the componet out jack on the Z1. Is it 1440x1080 or 1920x1080?

March 13th, 2007, 11:55 AM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Boyd answered your question, but to be sure it's clear, it's 1920 x 1080 on the component output. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 13th, 2007, 12:16 PM	#5
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Live out of the camera is uncompressed. Component out post-tape/recording is uncompressed, but the stream has already been compressed. Put another way, playing a VHS tape out of a component output is also uncompressed, but the media was compressed when it was put onto tape, therefore compressing it for storage. Uncompressed does not=great quality, unless the source was never compressed to begin with. Live output is pre-HDV compression. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 17th, 2007, 05:31 AM	#8
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	Please enlighten me .... z1 hd component signal - decompressed or uncompressed ? I'm still in doubt: Is the high def component signal from the Sony Z1: 1. a signal which decompressed an already HDV-compressed signal - with, followingly, little or no real advantage, compared with the Firewire HDV signal sent from tape, OR 2. a non-compressed signal sent directly from the AD circuitry BEFORE HDV compression OR 3. ...any other variant? Please enlighten me !!

March 20th, 2007, 02:32 PM	#10
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	Sceptical enquirer - live output uncompressed - so much better ?? Douglas and Vincent seem to confirm that LIVE HD output from the Sony Z1 is uncompressed and, therefore, so much better. Have any of you guys out there EVER tested thoroughly LIVE HD output from the Z1 and compared it with the HDV signal over Firewire? It would be nice to hear how such comparison has been achieved (capture card, capture software and subsequent testing). Otherwise the assertion may be based on "hearsay" or "subjective impression"....

March 13th, 2007, 11:53 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	The HDV 1080i spec is 1440x1080 anamorphic, but it is stretched to 1920x1080 for output. But this is also affected by a menu setting which allows you to choose 1080i50, 1080i60, 480i60, 480p30, 576i50 or 576p25 on the Z1.

March 13th, 2007, 12:37 PM	#6
Greg Patch Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 181	Thank you for your quick response, I am debating a coworker on these issues as I type. There is much confusion over here. On another note, is HD-SDI considered a better output source that componet output. HD SDI is still an analog signal correct?

March 13th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#7
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	SDI stands for Serial Digital Interface... So figure out... ;-)

March 17th, 2007, 07:06 AM	#9
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	It is before HDV compression. So better then via the firewire out, if you do it live. During playback not, then you get the HDV materia as it is on tape, so compressed.

March 20th, 2007, 02:39 PM	#11
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	This is a subject of HUGE discussion around the world. It's how folks like Scott Billups shoot some of their work, it's why companies like Wafian and CineForm partnered up to create uncompressed input to lightly compressed codecs in a box, it's why Black Magic sells cards and boxes, along with AJA and Bluefish. Yes, it's been done, tested, discussed a lot. All you need is an HDSDI card if you have an SDI converter from someone like Convergent Design, or a component input card such as an AJA. You can not only see the difference immediately, but the difference range in color grading is significant as well. I do believe that if you search around the image galleries here, you can compare the two. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 20th, 2007, 02:46 PM	#12
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	Yes but... Thanks Douglas. The Scott Billups reference might be true for the Canon XL H1 HDV cam (see:http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL...study_01.shtml) . But what about the Sony Z1 Live HD output compared with the XLH1 ?

March 20th, 2007, 03:03 PM	#13
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	now you're asking a different question, one of opinion and not fact. I'll leave that one to others. all HDV, and almost all DV camcorders offer a pre-compression, 4:2:2 output. Nothing new, nothing different, been that way for many years now. In any case, any time you can avoid compression, it's a better quality image. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM	#14
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	since canon uses 1440x1080 sensor, it should be better than the 960x1080 from the sony. currently, capturing HD component or HD-SDI is very expensive.(needs oversized PC, big processor, fast raid disk, expensive capture card) you can do a lot cheaper with capturing HDMI with the Intensity (250$) card and a good coded like cineform. component to HDMI converters come for cheap also (less than 200$) while component to HD-SDI are over 700$. My opinion is if you shoot HDV (on tape) correctly (good light, tripod, slow move) you would see only marginal improvement going direct component capture. If you are really looking for the best, renting an XD cam with superior optics will really make the difference.