Sony Shoulder HDV cam at DVinfo.net

Gareth Watkins · January 22nd, 2007, 12:47 PM

Hi all

I'm pretty happy with the ergonmics of the Z1, but once you kit it out to shoot with say matte box, large capacity battery etc, it is quite heavy. My solution has been to add a Cavision shoulder support, which is a great help...

BUT was wondering if any one had any info on a possible replacement for the Sony DSR 250... ie a Z1 shoulder style? It seems to be a hole in the Sony line up at the moment.

I'm not really interested in the Canon H1 or the JVC HDV cam... and a XDCam although nice is out of my budget and overkill for my needs.

What do people reackon? Am I the only one who would like a reasonably priced shoulder HDV cam...

Cheers
Gareth

Gene Crucean · January 27th, 2007, 05:08 PM

Try looking into putting together something that uses rails.

www.zacuto.com has some stuff. Although a bit pricy.

Sarah Staar · February 8th, 2007, 07:00 AM

yes its called XDCAM it uses blue ray discs but records in HDV.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 8th, 2007, 09:10 AM

XDCAM does not shoot HDV. It shoots MPEG at a higher bitrate, so one might say that DV is the same as DVCProHD. They're both the DV codec after all...

Chris Hurd · February 8th, 2007, 09:24 AM

Somebody will probably jump in and say "well, but you can
shoot XDCAM HD at 25mbps, which is the same as HDV."

Which might be true, but the bit rate isn't all there is to a format.

So once again: XDCAM HD is *not* HDV. Hope this helps,

Tim Le · February 8th, 2007, 10:40 AM

I really hope Sony or someone else is working on a compact shoulder mounted, interchangeble bayonet-mount lens camera. JVC has had this market all to themselves and they've sold over 22,000 HD100 series cameras worldwide! That's about $132 million in sales. If I were a camera company, I'd want piece of that. What do you say Sony?

Greg Boston · February 8th, 2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Somebody will probably jump in and say "well, but you can
shoot XDCAM HD at 25mbps, which is the same as HDV."

Which might be true, but the bit rate isn't all there is to a format.

So once again: XDCAM HD is *not* HDV. Hope this helps,

Exactly, Chris. The only thing that XDCAM HD shares with HDV is a 25mb CBR mid quality setting. Other than that, it's a lot more going into that bit rate than HDV, starting with larger native resolution than some HDV cameras.

The MPEG flavor of XDCAM HD is MP@HL which is Main Profile, High Level.

It also records 4 channels of 16bit PCM audio as opposed to the 320kbs mpeg compressed audio of HDV.

I'm not ragging on HDV, just wanting to point out the differences for everyone reading. This has been a big misconception by many that XDCAM HD is HDV.

-gb-

Gareth Watkins · February 8th, 2007, 03:03 PM

Hi Guys,

What I was talking about in my original post was a shoulder mount camera in the Z1 price bracket....simply coz a Z1 with mate box etc would sit better on the shoulder and I've bought a shoulder mount to achieve this....

I think here, it is not price but philiosophy that is the order of the day... Does one produce a high end handycam in the Z1 bracket... or a lower end shoulder cam for semi pro market, in the same mind set as the DSR 250. Interchangeable lenses are a plus, but most will no doubt use the stock lens.

The XDCam is 3X the price with out a lens...

I don't expect XDcam features or functions.... but it is frustrating to get to the top of the small 3CCD range and have only handycams that are heavy and lacking in a few inexpensive pro features...when in SD days more was available....

cheers
Gareth

Phil Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 04:33 PM

how about the jvc 201. Just got it, and it is stunning. Sure only 720p but stunning picture and such great form factor.

As an XDCAM350, Z1 owner this is the middle ground camera you are talking about. It is the perfect stepping stone without a doubt.

Don Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Phil,
Could you lend me 18K so I can get 1? ;-)

I agree that IF Sony came out with a full size Z1 in the mode of the 150/250 I might step up and get it. I really don't need everything the 350/330 has to offer and frankly for the type of work I do AND the amount of time I have left in the business investing 18 to 20 grand right now wouldn't make sense BUT ---IF (a BIG if) Sony DID have a DSRXXX as a full size version of the Z1 at a reasonable price say 6 to 7 thousand I would probably be the first to order it.
I love my 150/250 combo and again for the type of work I do it's perfect for me. (Now if they'd put a 20X lens on it it would be spot on) Oh well we can dream!
Don

Phil Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 07:22 PM

How much is the JVC 200 in the US (without the batteries)?

I would be surprised if they bring out a DSR HDV full size camera. The problem with HDV is that no broadcasters accept it for more than 15% of a programme. So there is no point in Sony doing it. XDCAM HD is only just acceptable, at the bottom end of the 100% acquisiton format. So outside of indie projects, corporates etc am not sure where HDV really fits in...perhaps some HD channels have less strict controls, especially in parts of Asia perhaps?

I could be wrong but I cannot see the logic in it, especially as Sony are pushing the XD format so hard!

Don Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 07:37 PM

our good friends at B&H have it listed for $8995 without batteries.

the ABC affiliate here in chicago, which is the only local station at least here in chicago, to broadcast the news in HD (as well as almost all of its programming) just purchased 2 JVC-HD250s and I believe they used them down in Miami for the pre and post game stuff of the superbowl for live broadcast back here in chicago.
I'm not sure that HDV isn't a viable option-but regardless I'm sure the gurus and braintrust at Sony would have already come out with something IF they were going to.
Oh well, I'll stick with what I got until I either retire OR something BIG happens to make me change my mind
Don

Phil Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 07:58 PM

the 250s are perfect for live HD studio stuff. They output pure uncompressed 1080i SDI HD...WAYYYY better than what it can record!

Am surprised at the B&H price, Same price as what I paid here. That rarely happens. Is the 201 anton bauer or IDX. You would have to add on about $2000 for a good idx battery charger and 4 7s.

One thing I noticed when opening the box, its like a pro size camera. No mains, no batteries, not even a tripod plate. It's basic!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 8th, 2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

How much is the JVC 200 in the US (without the batteries)?

I would be surprised if they bring out a DSR HDV full size camera. The problem with HDV is that no broadcasters accept it for more than 15% of a programme. So there is no point in Sony doing it. XDCAM HD is only just acceptable, at the bottom end of the 100% acquisiton format. So outside of indie projects, corporates etc am not sure where HDV really fits in...perhaps some HD channels have less strict controls, especially in parts of Asia perhaps?

I could be wrong but I cannot see the logic in it, especially as Sony are pushing the XD format so hard!

In May of 2007, a major broadcaster air a program that was 100% shot in HDV and delivered in HDCAM

Don Bloom · February 8th, 2007, 09:21 PM

B&H doesn't list a "201" might be the 'English' version though ;-)

My own preference is Anton Bauer as I've been using them for a long time and the dionic 90s which I use anyway are the recommended AB battery for the JVC-HD line-the mounting plate is $180 the Dionic90s are $400 each and a 4 position intellicharger is $1350 so if you go with 4 batteries you're at about $3100 for power. A 2 battery intellicharger is about $500 less (I like my 4 battery charger so I'm biased)
The IDX plate is $330 batteries (the E-7) is $190 and the charger is 2 position at $550 so its $1640 or so for IDX power-the only thing I don't like about the IDX (well 2 things) is 1) they're 71watts vs. AB Dionic 90watts so the ABs give an edge on run time and since the camera pulls 23watts in record thats about an hour-and 2) the AB mount plate is set up for a side plate for a wireless receiver-the IDX isn't. Now that certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but again since I'm a loyal AB fan I guess I would stick with them.
Now having said all of that-I'm not buying one anytime soon (read probably not until the next millenium) so for me it's more of a curiosity thing than anything else.
Oh well,

Don

January 22nd, 2007, 12:47 PM	#1
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Sony Shoulder HDV cam Hi all I'm pretty happy with the ergonmics of the Z1, but once you kit it out to shoot with say matte box, large capacity battery etc, it is quite heavy. My solution has been to add a Cavision shoulder support, which is a great help... BUT was wondering if any one had any info on a possible replacement for the Sony DSR 250... ie a Z1 shoulder style? It seems to be a hole in the Sony line up at the moment. I'm not really interested in the Canon H1 or the JVC HDV cam... and a XDCam although nice is out of my budget and overkill for my needs. What do people reackon? Am I the only one who would like a reasonably priced shoulder HDV cam... Cheers Gareth

February 8th, 2007, 09:10 AM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	XDCAM does not shoot HDV. It shoots MPEG at a higher bitrate, so one might say that DV is the same as DVCProHD. They're both the DV codec after all... __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 8th, 2007, 09:24 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Somebody will probably jump in and say "well, but you can shoot XDCAM HD at 25mbps, which is the same as HDV." Which might be true, but the bit rate isn't all there is to a format. So once again: XDCAM HD is not HDV. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 8th, 2007, 04:33 PM	#9
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	how about the jvc 201. Just got it, and it is stunning. Sure only 720p but stunning picture and such great form factor. As an XDCAM350, Z1 owner this is the middle ground camera you are talking about. It is the perfect stepping stone without a doubt. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 8th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#11
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	How much is the JVC 200 in the US (without the batteries)? I would be surprised if they bring out a DSR HDV full size camera. The problem with HDV is that no broadcasters accept it for more than 15% of a programme. So there is no point in Sony doing it. XDCAM HD is only just acceptable, at the bottom end of the 100% acquisiton format. So outside of indie projects, corporates etc am not sure where HDV really fits in...perhaps some HD channels have less strict controls, especially in parts of Asia perhaps? I could be wrong but I cannot see the logic in it, especially as Sony are pushing the XD format so hard! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 27th, 2007, 05:08 PM	#2
Gene Crucean Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 295	Try looking into putting together something that uses rails. www.zacuto.com has some stuff. Although a bit pricy.

February 8th, 2007, 07:00 AM	#3
Sarah Staar Tourist Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 4	yes its called XDCAM it uses blue ray discs but records in HDV.

February 8th, 2007, 10:40 AM	#6
Tim Le Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 350	I really hope Sony or someone else is working on a compact shoulder mounted, interchangeble bayonet-mount lens camera. JVC has had this market all to themselves and they've sold over 22,000 HD100 series cameras worldwide! That's about $132 million in sales. If I were a camera company, I'd want piece of that. What do you say Sony?

February 8th, 2007, 03:03 PM	#8
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi Guys, What I was talking about in my original post was a shoulder mount camera in the Z1 price bracket....simply coz a Z1 with mate box etc would sit better on the shoulder and I've bought a shoulder mount to achieve this.... I think here, it is not price but philiosophy that is the order of the day... Does one produce a high end handycam in the Z1 bracket... or a lower end shoulder cam for semi pro market, in the same mind set as the DSR 250. Interchangeable lenses are a plus, but most will no doubt use the stock lens. The XDCam is 3X the price with out a lens... I don't expect XDcam features or functions.... but it is frustrating to get to the top of the small 3CCD range and have only handycams that are heavy and lacking in a few inexpensive pro features...when in SD days more was available.... cheers Gareth

February 8th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#10
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Phil, Could you lend me 18K so I can get 1? ;-) I agree that IF Sony came out with a full size Z1 in the mode of the 150/250 I might step up and get it. I really don't need everything the 350/330 has to offer and frankly for the type of work I do AND the amount of time I have left in the business investing 18 to 20 grand right now wouldn't make sense BUT ---IF (a BIG if) Sony DID have a DSRXXX as a full size version of the Z1 at a reasonable price say 6 to 7 thousand I would probably be the first to order it. I love my 150/250 combo and again for the type of work I do it's perfect for me. (Now if they'd put a 20X lens on it it would be spot on) Oh well we can dream! Don

February 8th, 2007, 07:37 PM	#12
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	our good friends at B&H have it listed for $8995 without batteries. the ABC affiliate here in chicago, which is the only local station at least here in chicago, to broadcast the news in HD (as well as almost all of its programming) just purchased 2 JVC-HD250s and I believe they used them down in Miami for the pre and post game stuff of the superbowl for live broadcast back here in chicago. I'm not sure that HDV isn't a viable option-but regardless I'm sure the gurus and braintrust at Sony would have already come out with something IF they were going to. Oh well, I'll stick with what I got until I either retire OR something BIG happens to make me change my mind Don

February 8th, 2007, 07:58 PM	#13
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	the 250s are perfect for live HD studio stuff. They output pure uncompressed 1080i SDI HD...WAYYYY better than what it can record! Am surprised at the B&H price, Same price as what I paid here. That rarely happens. Is the 201 anton bauer or IDX. You would have to add on about $2000 for a good idx battery charger and 4 7s. One thing I noticed when opening the box, its like a pro size camera. No mains, no batteries, not even a tripod plate. It's basic! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 8th, 2007, 09:21 PM	#15
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	B&H doesn't list a "201" might be the 'English' version though ;-) My own preference is Anton Bauer as I've been using them for a long time and the dionic 90s which I use anyway are the recommended AB battery for the JVC-HD line-the mounting plate is $180 the Dionic90s are $400 each and a 4 position intellicharger is $1350 so if you go with 4 batteries you're at about $3100 for power. A 2 battery intellicharger is about $500 less (I like my 4 battery charger so I'm biased) The IDX plate is $330 batteries (the E-7) is $190 and the charger is 2 position at $550 so its $1640 or so for IDX power-the only thing I don't like about the IDX (well 2 things) is 1) they're 71watts vs. AB Dionic 90watts so the ABs give an edge on run time and since the camera pulls 23watts in record thats about an hour-and 2) the AB mount plate is set up for a side plate for a wireless receiver-the IDX isn't. Now that certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but again since I'm a loyal AB fan I guess I would stick with them. Now having said all of that-I'm not buying one anytime soon (read probably not until the next millenium) so for me it's more of a curiosity thing than anything else. Oh well, Don