1080p, 720 P..should I care? at DVinfo.net

Sal C. Martin · November 14th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Those who have the HVR-Z1U (Z1) swear by how good the pictures look. My question is should I be concerned that the camera cannot shoot 720p (let alone 1080p)? I just bought a 1080p set for the living room. What will the video look like from the Z1?

It's probably obvious that I'm very new to this HD thing. In the old days you would just purchase an SD cam (like the PD-170) and call it a day.

What do most people shoot in when they do regular video shoots (similar to TV news or reality tv shows) NOT 24p movie-type filming.

In simple terms, will the Z1 shoot good clear video that will look good on progressive TV sets? I realize that the Z1 is not the perfect camera but can it serve my needs adequately? Will it be outdated in a few years when everyone is shooting progressive?

Thanks for your help.

Bill Ravens · November 14th, 2006, 09:46 AM

Interlacing is a legacy technique from the days when TV sets were analog, and transmission datarates were limited by analog scan rates. Now days, with everything going digital, interlacing is totally unnecessary. Why do cameras still do interlaced? because it's always been done that way. IMHO, as soon as everyone in the world has a plasma screen TV, there will be no need for interlaced video.

Sal C. Martin · November 14th, 2006, 09:53 AM

Bill, thanks.

The decision is whether the Z1 will give me good video anyway or should I go with the Panasonic HVX-200 at considerably more money (when you factor in the cost of P2 cards).

Philip Williams · November 14th, 2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal C. Martin

Bill, thanks.

The decision is whether the Z1 will give me good video anyway or should I go with the Panasonic HVX-200 at considerably more money (when you factor in the cost of P2 cards).

The HVX and Z1 are so different, I'm not sure that I'd even compare them to each other. The format, the editing, the storage, the backend, recording times, etc...

Perhaps you could wait a bit and look at the Sony V1. Looks like a really nice camera and with progressive scan. The Canon XH A1 might be worth considering as well. And both are somewhat more affordable than the Z1.

Just a thought...

www.philipwilliams.com

Mike Schrengohst · November 14th, 2006, 01:26 PM

Working with progressive is just so much easier, from that datarates to the ease of greenscreen work. Whenever we work on web based video it is all progressive. And yes the world viewing experience is going progressive.
Plus all the DVD's I have produced lately are viewed on computers.
Panasonic has a special right now. FREE 8 gig P2 card if the HVX is purchased before Dec. 31st.

Evan C. King · November 14th, 2006, 09:03 PM

Wait a month and get the V1U instead is your worried about "p" but want a sony.

John M. Graham · November 15th, 2006, 12:23 AM

Will 1080i look good on a 1080p set? Well, if you think HD material broadcasted on major networks look good then the answer is "yes". Most stations broadcast in 1080i and they look great.

Will 1080i be as good as 1080p? No. But it will still be an amazing looking picture. Getting a 1080p TV set is smart, you're future proofing.

The HVX is a cool camera... but I don't know how people can afford to own that thing. I mean, first off, the camera is considerably more than the Z1U or V1U. Second, the P2 cards are insane. Oh sure, Panasonic is offering a free 8 gig card. Wow... now I can record **8 minutes** of HD video. What next? Buy another 8 minute card for over a thousand bucks? Yeah, you could immediately transfer the footage to your 500GB hard drive, but what about archiving? I love being able to have hundreds of miniDV tapes that I can always go back to. They're so cheap!

60 minute tape for $2.79, or an 8 minute card for $1299? Hmmmmmm.......

Gints Klimanis · November 15th, 2006, 12:33 AM

Archiving will be on BlueRay at 25GBytes or 50 GBytes. I'll go for random access from a computer disk anyday, and the disks will be faster to copy than miniDV. Also, the verify function will tell you the quality of your archive.

Though, still, BlueRay burners are above $700 .

Douglas Spotted Eagle · November 15th, 2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M. Graham

The HVX is a cool camera... but I don't know how people can afford to own that thing. I mean, first off, the camera is considerably more than the Z1U or V1U. Second, the P2 cards are insane. Oh sure, Panasonic is offering a free 8 gig card. Wow... now I can record **8 minutes** of HD video. What next? Buy another 8 minute card for over a thousand bucks? Yeah, you could immediately transfer the footage to your 500GB hard drive, but what about archiving? I love being able to have hundreds of miniDV tapes that I can always go back to. They're so cheap!
.......

Bear in mind that you can record 20 mins on a P2 card if you use 720pnative mode. But, you still don't have a means of archiving your master, and you still have all those pins being pushed in/out. 720p doesn't look bad when upsampled to 1080i, but (subjectively) I prefer 1080i to 720p upsampled to 1080i/p.
Additionally, BD (BluRay) now offers over 200GB of storage in multilayers as data disc, at 70ms.

Jemore Santos · November 15th, 2006, 01:29 AM

I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film.

Sal C. Martin · November 15th, 2006, 07:51 AM

So will the 1080i cameras (Z1, et al) still be relevant in a few years or will it be the equivalent of having a hi-8 camera today? Sure my old hi-8 camera still works but I would never use it for anything a client would see.

Is that not a good analogy? I am not opposed to purchasing a new camera in say 3-4 years but I don't want to purchase a new one next year because I'm already behind the curve.

Thoughts?

Mike Schrengohst · November 15th, 2006, 08:20 AM

I suggest you find a local dealer and "test drive" some cameras.
In 3-4 years it will be hard to find an interlaced set around to view interlaced video. All the talk of broadcasters using 1808i is only relevant to the few who actually produce broadcast work. Even then most of the higher end shows are shot VariCam or CineAlta - progressively......wait until after RED is released and you can probably get a 60i HDCAM for real cheap.

Greg LeBlanc · December 3rd, 2006, 03:33 PM

Ok, question. With a standard everyday DVD player found in millions of homes across the globe, Can you shoot, edit and still deliver for that medium using a progressive scan video? Meaning, if you make your final video in Progressive mode, output it to DVD, can any run of the mill DVD player play that back without noticing? Pardon my ignorance but I would like to know how all of that works.

Mike Schrengohst · December 3rd, 2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg LeBlanc

Ok, question. With a standard everyday DVD player found in millions of homes across the globe, Can you shoot, edit and still deliver for that medium using a progressive scan video? Meaning, if you make your final video in Progressive mode, output it to DVD, can any run of the mill DVD player play that back without noticing? Pardon my ignorance but I would like to know how all of that works.

Yes. Most Hollywood DVD are edited and encoded as 24p progressive....
Progressive video looks great on interlaced or progressive displays.
Video shot and edited 29.97 interlaced do not look that good on progressive displays (LCD, plasma, computer displays).

Greg LeBlanc · December 3rd, 2006, 03:54 PM

So what you are saying is that no matter what project I di, I should deinterlace it and do everything in progressive mode? Regardless of whether the end user will view it on LCD, Plasma, Computer OR Standard CRT Televisions?

November 14th, 2006, 09:13 AM	#1
Sal C. Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Francisco California Posts: 52	1080p, 720 P..should I care? Those who have the HVR-Z1U (Z1) swear by how good the pictures look. My question is should I be concerned that the camera cannot shoot 720p (let alone 1080p)? I just bought a 1080p set for the living room. What will the video look like from the Z1? It's probably obvious that I'm very new to this HD thing. In the old days you would just purchase an SD cam (like the PD-170) and call it a day. What do most people shoot in when they do regular video shoots (similar to TV news or reality tv shows) NOT 24p movie-type filming. In simple terms, will the Z1 shoot good clear video that will look good on progressive TV sets? I realize that the Z1 is not the perfect camera but can it serve my needs adequately? Will it be outdated in a few years when everyone is shooting progressive? Thanks for your help.

November 14th, 2006, 09:53 AM	#3
Sal C. Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Francisco California Posts: 52	Thanks Bill, thanks. The decision is whether the Z1 will give me good video anyway or should I go with the Panasonic HVX-200 at considerably more money (when you factor in the cost of P2 cards).

November 14th, 2006, 01:26 PM	#5
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Working with progressive is just so much easier, from that datarates to the ease of greenscreen work. Whenever we work on web based video it is all progressive. And yes the world viewing experience is going progressive. Plus all the DVD's I have produced lately are viewed on computers. Panasonic has a special right now. FREE 8 gig P2 card if the HVX is purchased before Dec. 31st. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

November 15th, 2006, 01:29 AM	#10
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	I think the HVX is targetted at the indy film maker, and if you think about it, a 400ft roll of 16mm film will only last for about 12 minutes or so, so if you have transitioned yourself from film to P2 then you will have no problems, as an assistant camera operator or clapper/loader, loading p2 is a walk the park compared to loading film. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

November 15th, 2006, 07:51 AM	#11
Sal C. Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Francisco California Posts: 52	1080i So will the 1080i cameras (Z1, et al) still be relevant in a few years or will it be the equivalent of having a hi-8 camera today? Sure my old hi-8 camera still works but I would never use it for anything a client would see. Is that not a good analogy? I am not opposed to purchasing a new camera in say 3-4 years but I don't want to purchase a new one next year because I'm already behind the curve. Thoughts?

November 14th, 2006, 09:46 AM	#2
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Interlacing is a legacy technique from the days when TV sets were analog, and transmission datarates were limited by analog scan rates. Now days, with everything going digital, interlacing is totally unnecessary. Why do cameras still do interlaced? because it's always been done that way. IMHO, as soon as everyone in the world has a plasma screen TV, there will be no need for interlaced video.

November 14th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#6
Evan C. King Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 532	Wait a month and get the V1U instead is your worried about "p" but want a sony.

November 15th, 2006, 12:23 AM	#7
John M. Graham Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 83	Will 1080i look good on a 1080p set? Well, if you think HD material broadcasted on major networks look good then the answer is "yes". Most stations broadcast in 1080i and they look great. Will 1080i be as good as 1080p? No. But it will still be an amazing looking picture. Getting a 1080p TV set is smart, you're future proofing. The HVX is a cool camera... but I don't know how people can afford to own that thing. I mean, first off, the camera is considerably more than the Z1U or V1U. Second, the P2 cards are insane. Oh sure, Panasonic is offering a free 8 gig card. Wow... now I can record 8 minutes of HD video. What next? Buy another 8 minute card for over a thousand bucks? Yeah, you could immediately transfer the footage to your 500GB hard drive, but what about archiving? I love being able to have hundreds of miniDV tapes that I can always go back to. They're so cheap! 60 minute tape for $2.79, or an 8 minute card for $1299? Hmmmmmm.......

November 15th, 2006, 12:33 AM	#8
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Archiving will be on BlueRay at 25GBytes or 50 GBytes. I'll go for random access from a computer disk anyday, and the disks will be faster to copy than miniDV. Also, the verify function will tell you the quality of your archive. Though, still, BlueRay burners are above $700 .

November 15th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#12
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	I suggest you find a local dealer and "test drive" some cameras. In 3-4 years it will be hard to find an interlaced set around to view interlaced video. All the talk of broadcasters using 1808i is only relevant to the few who actually produce broadcast work. Even then most of the higher end shows are shot VariCam or CineAlta - progressively......wait until after RED is released and you can probably get a 60i HDCAM for real cheap. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

December 3rd, 2006, 03:33 PM	#13
Greg LeBlanc New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 11	1080i Vs. 1080p vs Standard DVD Players Ok, question. With a standard everyday DVD player found in millions of homes across the globe, Can you shoot, edit and still deliver for that medium using a progressive scan video? Meaning, if you make your final video in Progressive mode, output it to DVD, can any run of the mill DVD player play that back without noticing? Pardon my ignorance but I would like to know how all of that works.

December 3rd, 2006, 03:54 PM	#15
Greg LeBlanc New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 11	Progressive Vs Interlaced So what you are saying is that no matter what project I di, I should deinterlace it and do everything in progressive mode? Regardless of whether the end user will view it on LCD, Plasma, Computer OR Standard CRT Televisions?