Z1U audio (built-in mic with another source) at DVinfo.net

Pete Cofrancesco · September 19th, 2006, 07:30 PM

Can you record audio from the built-in mic to one channel and another source plugged into the xlr to the other channel? Is this an either/or choice? For example wireless lav to the left and built-in mic to the right (for ambient sound).

I just received the camera today and I'm shooting a wedding in a couple of weeks so I need to know if I need to buy a shotgun mic to do this.

thx in advance

Boyd Ostroff · September 19th, 2006, 07:42 PM

No, it's an either/or proposition with the built-in mike. This is similar to some of Sony's other cameras, like the PDX-10 and (I think) A1u.

Pete Cofrancesco · September 19th, 2006, 07:50 PM

thx. time to buy a shotgun mic quick!

any recommendations in the $100-200 range?

Bruce S. Yarock · September 20th, 2006, 07:06 AM

Spend $250 and get the Audio Technika AT 897. It's a great mic.
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

Tom Hardwick · September 20th, 2006, 10:01 AM

In the $100-$200 range, go look at the Rode mics.

Gareth Watkins · September 20th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Hi there

I've got both Rode NTG-2 and AT 897 mics and both give good results.... The Rode is noticably hotter when used on a boom than the AT...

Both have comparable features and are close enough in price to make the choice one of features and sound ...rather than cost.

Both also make prtty good hand held mics...

check out this link to hear both mics on test: http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics.html

Regards
Gareth

Pete Cofrancesco · September 20th, 2006, 06:17 PM

thx for the recommendations. I ended up going with the Oktava-012 hypercardioid after reading some threads here, since it sounded better suited for my needs, ambient sound indoors and as a back up to my wireless lav. But I will keep your shotgun recommendations in mind if I need a more sensitive mic with more reach.

Mark Utley · September 20th, 2006, 06:43 PM

I think you'll be happy with the MK-012, Pete. Some friends of mine used to do a podcast with that mic.

http://www.thejamboree.net/

Pete Cofrancesco · September 20th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

I think you'll be happy with the MK-012, Pete. Some friends of mine used to do a podcast with that mic.

http://www.thejamboree.net/

thx i hope so, because i usually like mics that are very sensitive. i'd rather turn down the gain, than up. I have an AT822 but I find that it has to be close to the source otherwise it too quite.

Tom Hardwick · September 21st, 2006, 12:19 AM

*ALL* mics are designed to be close to the source of the sound Pete.
Most people make the mistake in thinking that a shotgun mic can be used from way off and an omni-directional mic should be used close up, but in reality they're BOTH designed to be used close up. The big difference is in the polar pattern, where the shotgun listens ahead of it and the omni (typically a tie-clip) listens all around it.

tom.

Pete Cofrancesco · September 26th, 2006, 07:18 PM

I wanted to give you an update:

I received the Oktava-012 Mic in the mail yesterday. I'm happy with its sound quality, low price $173, small size is nice, and I like that it doesn't need a battery (one less thing to worry about. if I had a dime for every time I've forgotten to turn a mic off). Only possible downsize is its short length, when mounted on the camera is more apt to pick up camera/operator noise.

Gints Klimanis · September 27th, 2006, 05:38 AM

>I have an AT822 but I find that it has to be close to the source otherwise it >too quite.

I've been using the AT822 for a couple of years with my Sony VX2000. It has worked marvelously for me and provides a sound significantly superior to the built-in stereo. Within a range of 10 feet or so, I really like it. It picks up everything, whether you want it or not.

> I like that it doesn't need a battery (one less thing to worry about. if I had > a dime for every time I've forgotten to turn a mic off).

Just use rechargeable NiMH batteries before every shoot to avoid the cost and toxic waste of Alkaline batteries. NIMH AA capacities just met standard AA alkalines at 2700-2800 mAh. I like NIMH because I no longer have to guess remaining battery capacity because of the extra trouble taken to put in a freshly charged NiMH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofran

I have an AT822 but I find that it has to be close to the source otherwise it too quite.

As a new Z1U owner, I had to change my AT822 to the AT825 for true stereo XLR connections. Bummed about another cost.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · September 27th, 2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis

>Just use rechargeable NiMH batteries before every shoot to avoid the cost and toxic waste of Alkaline batteries. NIMH AA capacities just met standard AA alkalines at 2700-2800 mAh. I like NIMH because I no longer have to guess remaining battery capacity because of the extra trouble taken to put in a freshly charged NiMH.
.

Danger Danger....Rechargeables are rarely used for wireless, and should be used rarely. They drop fast, and it used to be (no longer so) that most wireless companies would not warrant their products if you use wireless.
Alkaline batteries hold better performance, and you know pretty easily when the quality of your audio begins to degrade.

Gints Klimanis · September 27th, 2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Danger Danger....Rechargeables are rarely used for wireless, and should be used rarely. They drop fast, and it used to be (no longer so) that most wireless companies would not warrant their products if you use wireless.
Alkaline batteries hold better performance, and you know pretty easily when the quality of your audio begins to degrade.

Thanks for the warning. Though, would that warning be directed at the 9V battery form ? Most of the NIMH rechargeable "9V" batteries deliver 7.2V and have significantly lower capacities than their alkaline brothers. Also, 9V charger units are quite crude, and I really don't trust them.

AA NiMH seem to be totally fine in wired but battery-powered microphones such as the AT822. The rechargeable NIMH AA's are 1.2 volts, and that seems to work well for me, at least for 1-3 hours of shooting. I will go for a freshly recharged NIMH battery over guessing the state of the AA anyday. The battery chargers available for AA's (such as LaCrosse BC-900) are excellent, with programmable charge current, trickle voltage maintenance, and four independent charge circuits.

I have more experience with AA NiMH in Nikon flashes (SB800). No doubt, they deliver current faster than any other battery type, as measured by flash recycle time.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · September 27th, 2006, 08:23 AM

This would be of the 9 volt kind, yes. Until recently, that's pretty well what most wireless systems used. I won't use rechargeable AA's either, but that's by preference. Flash devices are significantly different than audio devices, so bear that in mind.
Devices manufactured to specifically use Li-on or NmH are different, of course. Camcorders, laptops, etc...but to my knowledge, no wireless' units are made specifically with rechargeables as part of their design.

September 19th, 2006, 07:30 PM	#1
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Z1U audio (built-in mic with another source) Can you record audio from the built-in mic to one channel and another source plugged into the xlr to the other channel? Is this an either/or choice? For example wireless lav to the left and built-in mic to the right (for ambient sound). I just received the camera today and I'm shooting a wedding in a couple of weeks so I need to know if I need to buy a shotgun mic to do this. thx in advance

September 20th, 2006, 06:43 PM	#8
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	I think you'll be happy with the MK-012, Pete. Some friends of mine used to do a podcast with that mic. http://www.thejamboree.net/ __________________ Mark Utley

September 27th, 2006, 08:23 AM	#15
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	This would be of the 9 volt kind, yes. Until recently, that's pretty well what most wireless systems used. I won't use rechargeable AA's either, but that's by preference. Flash devices are significantly different than audio devices, so bear that in mind. Devices manufactured to specifically use Li-on or NmH are different, of course. Camcorders, laptops, etc...but to my knowledge, no wireless' units are made specifically with rechargeables as part of their design. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

September 19th, 2006, 07:42 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	No, it's an either/or proposition with the built-in mike. This is similar to some of Sony's other cameras, like the PDX-10 and (I think) A1u.

September 19th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#3
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	thx. time to buy a shotgun mic quick! any recommendations in the $100-200 range?

September 20th, 2006, 07:06 AM	#4
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Spend $250 and get the Audio Technika AT 897. It's a great mic. Bruce S. yarock www.yarock.com

September 20th, 2006, 10:01 AM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	In the $100-$200 range, go look at the Rode mics.

September 20th, 2006, 12:19 PM	#6
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi there I've got both Rode NTG-2 and AT 897 mics and both give good results.... The Rode is noticably hotter when used on a boom than the AT... Both have comparable features and are close enough in price to make the choice one of features and sound ...rather than cost. Both also make prtty good hand held mics... check out this link to hear both mics on test: http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics.html Regards Gareth

September 20th, 2006, 06:17 PM	#7
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	thx for the recommendations. I ended up going with the Oktava-012 hypercardioid after reading some threads here, since it sounded better suited for my needs, ambient sound indoors and as a back up to my wireless lav. But I will keep your shotgun recommendations in mind if I need a more sensitive mic with more reach.

September 21st, 2006, 12:19 AM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	ALL mics are designed to be close to the source of the sound Pete. Most people make the mistake in thinking that a shotgun mic can be used from way off and an omni-directional mic should be used close up, but in reality they're BOTH designed to be used close up. The big difference is in the polar pattern, where the shotgun listens ahead of it and the omni (typically a tie-clip) listens all around it. tom.

September 26th, 2006, 07:18 PM	#11
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	I wanted to give you an update: I received the Oktava-012 Mic in the mail yesterday. I'm happy with its sound quality, low price $173, small size is nice, and I like that it doesn't need a battery (one less thing to worry about. if I had a dime for every time I've forgotten to turn a mic off). Only possible downsize is its short length, when mounted on the camera is more apt to pick up camera/operator noise.