1080i HDV downsize to optimum EDTV Resolution at DVinfo.net

Brooks Hargreaves · April 17th, 2006, 12:25 PM

I figured I would get this thread started to track some research I am running on downsizing the Sony HDR-FX1 1080i HDV to its optimum resolution for an AKAI PDP4294 Plasma Display.

Here's the specs:

AKAI PDP4294 Plasma Display
EDTV (480p/480i)
Frame Aspect: 852W x 480H (pixels)
Inputs: video/svideo/480i/480p/720p/1080i
Broadcast Format Displayed 480p (EDTV) / 480i (SDTV)
Broadcast Format Supported 1080i(HDTV) / 720p(HDTV) / 480i(SDTV)
NOTE: Manual states "Optimum Picture in 720p mode"

Panasonic DVD-S31A DVD Player
480i / 480p

Initial reaction to the specs is "I want to put into the tv exactly what I want to get out of it" and looking at the ranges it looks like 480i or 480p would be the resolution I am going for. 480p would be the cleaner of the two I believe, yet I can't help but wonder what 720p or 1080i would look like letting the television do the conversion. Then again we have the DVD Player to think about (I do have an AvelLink Player but I think we are holding off on utilizing this currently).

So time to run some tests! Could you all check my head on my thoughts above? These are correct, no? Any suggestions otherwise?

Thanks, I'll post back with some results.

Brooks

Graham Hickling · April 17th, 2006, 12:42 PM

480p60 will provide better motion than either 480p30 or 480i60, and is readily achievable by smart-deinterlacing and resizing your raw 1080i60 footage.

You should be able to resize your footage in software better than your TV can resize it - however its simple enough to try both ways and see which you prefer...

Boyd Ostroff · April 17th, 2006, 12:52 PM

Welcome to DVinfo Brooks. But please don't cross-post the same question to different forums; it fragments the discussion and is against our rules.

I have a Panasonic plasma EDTV and a Z1. It looks very nice with the 1080i via component video right out of the camera. But if you you need to go to DVD then there are probably only two practical options. The simplest would be using the camera to downconvert to standard definition via firewire, then capture and edit as 480i.

The other way is what Graham suggests, using software to deinterlace. There's a big downside there however because you could be looking at significant render time plus twice the amount of storage space for the original and the 480p version. Try a test, but I'd question whether the quality difference would justify all the extra time.

But if you can play back directly from the camera or an HDV deck (or other HD source) then I'll bet you'd be better off just sending 1080i directly to the screen and let its hardware do the scaling.

Brooks Hargreaves · April 18th, 2006, 01:53 PM

I'm in the final stages of rendering out versions of a trial 40 second clip, encompassing two workflows that I have seen, the last work flow (Whites) resulting in both an interlaced file and a progressive file. But I get a lot of artifacts at this stage, and not just aliasing but severe data blockage as if there is an underlying video peaking from below.

I have taken the 1080i footage (Cineform Intermediate) and using After Effects, de-interlaced, re-sized and rendered an MPEG2-DVD file (all within one render (should I have done this in separate renders thus more lossy?)) This worked -- but it's fuzzier than some of the other files I have seen from Steven Whites workflow.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45165

But I can't complete his instructions as they are a little vague (or perhaps I am just lost in the fray of letters and numbers). There are the little things which make such a big difference, like when to change the FPS back to 29.97 from 59.94 and when, what and if to set field rendering for that iteration.

Can someone provide me a link to or explain a cut and dry workflow from 1080i HDV (Sony HDR-FX1) to both an EDTV and a true 1080i LG HDTV (separately)? We can't send the camera to play HDV from the tape, an HDV set top player is too expensive... so it must be SD DVD for the moment (I don't even wanna try to tackle the BluRay or HD DVD right now).

I plan on using the Avelink Player later this year with the LG Plasma, which I have successfully rendered 1080i footage with the WMV9 codec. And its great, but for now its the AKAI EDTV and the Panasonic DVD Player.

Can someone PLEASE just spell it out for me? I don't mind following a set process for quality in the end result. I'm lost and need to move forward to actually compositing/animating/scoring :/

Thanks to you all for providing/maintaining this resource.

Brooks

April 17th, 2006, 12:25 PM	#1
Brooks Hargreaves New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 5	1080i HDV downsize to optimum EDTV Resolution I figured I would get this thread started to track some research I am running on downsizing the Sony HDR-FX1 1080i HDV to its optimum resolution for an AKAI PDP4294 Plasma Display. Here's the specs: AKAI PDP4294 Plasma Display EDTV (480p/480i) Frame Aspect: 852W x 480H (pixels) Inputs: video/svideo/480i/480p/720p/1080i Broadcast Format Displayed 480p (EDTV) / 480i (SDTV) Broadcast Format Supported 1080i(HDTV) / 720p(HDTV) / 480i(SDTV) NOTE: Manual states "Optimum Picture in 720p mode" Panasonic DVD-S31A DVD Player 480i / 480p Initial reaction to the specs is "I want to put into the tv exactly what I want to get out of it" and looking at the ranges it looks like 480i or 480p would be the resolution I am going for. 480p would be the cleaner of the two I believe, yet I can't help but wonder what 720p or 1080i would look like letting the television do the conversion. Then again we have the DVD Player to think about (I do have an AvelLink Player but I think we are holding off on utilizing this currently). So time to run some tests! Could you all check my head on my thoughts above? These are correct, no? Any suggestions otherwise? Thanks, I'll post back with some results. Brooks

April 18th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#4
Brooks Hargreaves New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 5	Workflow? I'm in the final stages of rendering out versions of a trial 40 second clip, encompassing two workflows that I have seen, the last work flow (Whites) resulting in both an interlaced file and a progressive file. But I get a lot of artifacts at this stage, and not just aliasing but severe data blockage as if there is an underlying video peaking from below. I have taken the 1080i footage (Cineform Intermediate) and using After Effects, de-interlaced, re-sized and rendered an MPEG2-DVD file (all within one render (should I have done this in separate renders thus more lossy?)) This worked -- but it's fuzzier than some of the other files I have seen from Steven Whites workflow. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45165 But I can't complete his instructions as they are a little vague (or perhaps I am just lost in the fray of letters and numbers). There are the little things which make such a big difference, like when to change the FPS back to 29.97 from 59.94 and when, what and if to set field rendering for that iteration. Can someone provide me a link to or explain a cut and dry workflow from 1080i HDV (Sony HDR-FX1) to both an EDTV and a true 1080i LG HDTV (separately)? We can't send the camera to play HDV from the tape, an HDV set top player is too expensive... so it must be SD DVD for the moment (I don't even wanna try to tackle the BluRay or HD DVD right now). I plan on using the Avelink Player later this year with the LG Plasma, which I have successfully rendered 1080i footage with the WMV9 codec. And its great, but for now its the AKAI EDTV and the Panasonic DVD Player. Can someone PLEASE just spell it out for me? I don't mind following a set process for quality in the end result. I'm lost and need to move forward to actually compositing/animating/scoring :/ Thanks to you all for providing/maintaining this resource. Brooks

April 17th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#2
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	480p60 will provide better motion than either 480p30 or 480i60, and is readily achievable by smart-deinterlacing and resizing your raw 1080i60 footage. You should be able to resize your footage in software better than your TV can resize it - however its simple enough to try both ways and see which you prefer...

April 17th, 2006, 12:52 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Welcome to DVinfo Brooks. But please don't cross-post the same question to different forums; it fragments the discussion and is against our rules. I have a Panasonic plasma EDTV and a Z1. It looks very nice with the 1080i via component video right out of the camera. But if you you need to go to DVD then there are probably only two practical options. The simplest would be using the camera to downconvert to standard definition via firewire, then capture and edit as 480i. The other way is what Graham suggests, using software to deinterlace. There's a big downside there however because you could be looking at significant render time plus twice the amount of storage space for the original and the 480p version. Try a test, but I'd question whether the quality difference would justify all the extra time. But if you can play back directly from the camera or an HDV deck (or other HD source) then I'll bet you'd be better off just sending 1080i directly to the screen and let its hardware do the scaling.