FX1 or DVX100 for Film Noir at DVinfo.net

Kris Galuska · January 14th, 2006, 11:55 AM

I hope this is the right place to post this.

Well anyways, I am shooting a film noir/ Sin City style short film with my own “unique” touches thrown in.

I already have access to a Panasonic DVX100, but I have found a cameraman that is willing to let me rent him, his FX1, and his equipment for $50 a day.

Which should I use?

I know the DVX100 has 24p, but I prefer the detail of HD. In my opinion the HD makes it look closer to film then 24p at SD. Both would be preferable, but that is not in the budget.

My biggest concern is the horrendous interlacing issues I’ve seen on some FX1/Z1 footage. The professional stuff I’ve seen has none of this, but all the home video style stuff is plagued with horizontal lines.

How and why does it accrue? How do I stop it? I’ve noticed that if I import the footage into After Affects 6.5, the striping goes away. Could these artifacts be from windows play back?

My other concern is latitude and highlight handling. I have seen good results from both. Neither are close to film, but I have an HDR (High Dynamic Range Lighting) technique I apply that seems to work pretty well.

Audio is not important (I’ll have an external recorder). Image quality is all that matters.

So what’s your opinion? Which should I pick?

P.S. Please don’t say I should go with a HVX200 or H1. Unless you are planning on letting me borrow one, I can’t afford to use them. Thanks

Chris Barcellos · January 14th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Kris:

This forum is loaded with threads arguing over these very questions. Ultimately, the answer lies in actually testing out both cameras, and rendering the test to a finished product, to determine if you can get where you want to go. There will be plenty out there who will argue for one camera or the other. I have the FX1. I love what it can do. If I have learned anything from being on this forum, there are plenty of those out there who will berate it, and come up with reasons not to use it. What you need to be concerned about is will it get you the finished product you are looking for, and forget about the 24p v. whatever arguments. If you're looking to take it out to film, you will need to consider how you are going to shoot it, but it doesn't mean it can't be done.

It is my understanding that shooting in Cineframe 30 with the FX1, and rendering to 24p does work. The argument is that you loose some of the definition gained through using the HDV format in the first place.

Chris Barcellos

Kris Galuska · January 14th, 2006, 01:24 PM

I'm really not concerned about blowing up to film. If a distributor wants my short that badly, then they'd probably be willing to pay for the blow up.

This is really more of a calling card project, and a way to push my skills to the breaking point.

Like I said, my main concern is the stripping I've seen in some of the FX1 footage.
Have you had a problem with this?

Thanks for the help.

Patrick Swinnea · January 17th, 2006, 12:19 PM

The interlace lines may be from the video player you are using. In VLC Player for example you have to select De-Interlace to watch m2t files without interlaced lines.

Vegas does a nice De-Interlace also, and the 1080i60 renders well to 720p24 IMO. You still have to be very careful with camera movement, shooting interlaced with progressive output in mind. The smooth movements in the viewfinder may not be so smooth once you render to 24p.

Mark Utley · January 17th, 2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Galuska

I have found a cameraman that is willing to let me rent him, his FX1, and his equipment for $50 a day.

Doesn't that price sound a bit low?

Patrick Swinnea · January 17th, 2006, 02:09 PM

Holy crap!

Yeah, $50 a day is crazy low! Be careful or you may end up getting what you pay for...

If that's what he charges then that's what he delivers. You'd probably do better to take him up on it, get the camera and then give him the day off...

Kris Galuska · January 17th, 2006, 06:35 PM

It's a great deal because he likes my script.

A lot of people (from models to DP's) have offered to work on the project for little to no pay.

Also, a lot of people in this industry are looking for a calling card type project. They are willing to work for free if they get a unique experience and good exposure. It's hard to find either in Dallas. We are hoping to have the short in many festivals this year and next.

I graduate from college this spring. Most people would be looking for a job, but I'm tempted to start my own production company. I don't want to play the Hollywood game where movies are made based on marketing and demographics. I want to tell stories.

If creative, passionate people stick together, great things can be accomplished.

Sorry for the small rant

Patrick Swinnea · January 17th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Right on. I've had lots of people work for me for free based on a script and/or for credits and experience so I totally get you. I guess I thought you had just "found" this guy.

January 14th, 2006, 11:55 AM	#1
Kris Galuska Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, NY Posts: 59	FX1 or DVX100 for Film Noir I hope this is the right place to post this. Well anyways, I am shooting a film noir/ Sin City style short film with my own “unique” touches thrown in. I already have access to a Panasonic DVX100, but I have found a cameraman that is willing to let me rent him, his FX1, and his equipment for $50 a day. Which should I use? I know the DVX100 has 24p, but I prefer the detail of HD. In my opinion the HD makes it look closer to film then 24p at SD. Both would be preferable, but that is not in the budget. My biggest concern is the horrendous interlacing issues I’ve seen on some FX1/Z1 footage. The professional stuff I’ve seen has none of this, but all the home video style stuff is plagued with horizontal lines. How and why does it accrue? How do I stop it? I’ve noticed that if I import the footage into After Affects 6.5, the striping goes away. Could these artifacts be from windows play back? My other concern is latitude and highlight handling. I have seen good results from both. Neither are close to film, but I have an HDR (High Dynamic Range Lighting) technique I apply that seems to work pretty well. Audio is not important (I’ll have an external recorder). Image quality is all that matters. So what’s your opinion? Which should I pick? P.S. Please don’t say I should go with a HVX200 or H1. Unless you are planning on letting me borrow one, I can’t afford to use them. Thanks

January 14th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Test Shoot One Day Kris: This forum is loaded with threads arguing over these very questions. Ultimately, the answer lies in actually testing out both cameras, and rendering the test to a finished product, to determine if you can get where you want to go. There will be plenty out there who will argue for one camera or the other. I have the FX1. I love what it can do. If I have learned anything from being on this forum, there are plenty of those out there who will berate it, and come up with reasons not to use it. What you need to be concerned about is will it get you the finished product you are looking for, and forget about the 24p v. whatever arguments. If you're looking to take it out to film, you will need to consider how you are going to shoot it, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. It is my understanding that shooting in Cineframe 30 with the FX1, and rendering to 24p does work. The argument is that you loose some of the definition gained through using the HDV format in the first place. Chris Barcellos

January 14th, 2006, 01:24 PM	#3
Kris Galuska Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, NY Posts: 59	Fx1 I'm really not concerned about blowing up to film. If a distributor wants my short that badly, then they'd probably be willing to pay for the blow up. This is really more of a calling card project, and a way to push my skills to the breaking point. Like I said, my main concern is the stripping I've seen in some of the FX1 footage. Have you had a problem with this? Thanks for the help.

January 17th, 2006, 12:19 PM	#4
Patrick Swinnea Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 93	The interlace lines may be from the video player you are using. In VLC Player for example you have to select De-Interlace to watch m2t files without interlaced lines. Vegas does a nice De-Interlace also, and the 1080i60 renders well to 720p24 IMO. You still have to be very careful with camera movement, shooting interlaced with progressive output in mind. The smooth movements in the viewfinder may not be so smooth once you render to 24p. Last edited by Patrick Swinnea; January 17th, 2006 at 03:32 PM.

January 17th, 2006, 06:35 PM	#7
Kris Galuska Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, NY Posts: 59	Great deal? It's a great deal because he likes my script. A lot of people (from models to DP's) have offered to work on the project for little to no pay. Also, a lot of people in this industry are looking for a calling card type project. They are willing to work for free if they get a unique experience and good exposure. It's hard to find either in Dallas. We are hoping to have the short in many festivals this year and next. I graduate from college this spring. Most people would be looking for a job, but I'm tempted to start my own production company. I don't want to play the Hollywood game where movies are made based on marketing and demographics. I want to tell stories. If creative, passionate people stick together, great things can be accomplished. Sorry for the small rant

January 17th, 2006, 02:09 PM	#6
Patrick Swinnea Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 93	Holy crap! Yeah, $50 a day is crazy low! Be careful or you may end up getting what you pay for... If that's what he charges then that's what he delivers. You'd probably do better to take him up on it, get the camera and then give him the day off...

January 17th, 2006, 06:49 PM	#8
Patrick Swinnea Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 93	Right on. I've had lots of people work for me for free based on a script and/or for credits and experience so I totally get you. I guess I thought you had just "found" this guy.