Disaster! at DVinfo.net

Andy Peterson · December 9th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Today is not a good day.

We just finished editing a rough copy of a short film we just shot so our musicians have something to watch while they write.

The footage looks great and has always looked great on our editor's COMPUTER. Once I burned a DVD of the movie, the 'you know what' hit the fan.

Every movement looks like crap. It is almost pixelated and looks real blocky. It is not a subtle motion blur like we expected, it looks HORRIBLE.

Also, all of the audio sounds muddy and is very low. You have to crank the TV to even hear it, and even then it sounds like crap and there is a buzz. We monitored the audio correctly, and it recorded right. I know this because it plays back on the computer very well.

Everything looks and sounds GREAT on the editor's computer but is unwatchable when burned to DVD or exported to tape.

Before you ask, we shot in Cineframe24. It is my FX1 so everyone wants to kill me!

Does anyone have any suggestions??

We are editing in Premiere.

I appreciate any help.

...Andy

Douglas Villalba · December 9th, 2005, 01:08 PM

If the movie looks good and sounds good when you see it on a HD monitor and good speakers then you just have to re-compress the mpeg file. Sometimes using too high of a bit rate would do that to the image specially on the dark areas.
What compression were you using?

Andy Peterson · December 9th, 2005, 01:11 PM

Hello!

Thanks for the reply.
We actually didn't shoot in hi-def.
We shot in 480i in DV wide rec. mode. (which my prof later pointed out was a stupid decision)

We exported the movie from Premiere as an AVI and I brought it into iDVD to burn it.

Anyone else? I need an resolution quick or I'm dead!

...Andy

Rick Steele · December 9th, 2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

We exported the movie from Premiere as an AVI and I brought it into iDVD to burn it.

Have you tried rendering it as an MPEG2 file using Premiere? Then burn it to DVD?

Jim Montgomery · December 9th, 2005, 02:05 PM

Try rendering it as an Mpeg2 file, upper field first, video only. Then render your audio as a wav file. Combine the two in your dvd authoring software as see if thats an improvement.

Andy Peterson · December 9th, 2005, 02:29 PM

Let's just 'pretend' I am not completely sure how to do this.

Can you give me a quick explanation?
I'm a Mac guy so I've never dealt with this kind of thing before.

Douglas Villalba · December 9th, 2005, 03:30 PM

What exactly are you using to compress and author your DVDs?

George Griswold · December 9th, 2005, 04:13 PM

I cut on AVID Xpress Pro HD and had all kinds of problems making clean DVD's--problems independent of the editing software, but rather the encoding stage. I tried Encore with fabulous results and it takes some experimentation to hit the sweet spot of bit rate, and all the other settings that are largely undocumented. I think you can download a trial of Encore--- might want to try that. Don't go crazy with high bit-rates because some players can't handle it-- I think I used 6000-7000; top end is 9000 I think. Also if there is an AC-3 option take that.

Andy Peterson · December 9th, 2005, 06:28 PM

Hey guys,

Like I said I just exported the movie from Premiere as an AVI and dumped it onto my computer in an iDVD project and burned it. Plain and simple.
I have never had this problem before.

Cineframe24 is fake 24p so we should still be editing in 29.97fps correct?

My prof thinks that the audio was recorded on a track that isn't being played back once exported.
Does the FX1 record sound in hi-fi? At my school if we turn on the hi-fi on the svhs deck the sound will play back properly.

I appreciate everyone's input, but I really don't think this is a compression problem.

It was not recorded in hi-def.

Thanks for your help,

...Andy

Jim Montgomery · December 9th, 2005, 07:06 PM

In Premier go to Export, Movie, clik on settings, under file type in the General Tab select MainConcept MPEG, select Key Frame and Rendering and be sure that it says "upper field first".

And by the way the only cinefame mode that looks any good is 30. Then you have to capture as progressive....etc, etc......

The camera works best when it is set at 1080i

Rick Steele · December 9th, 2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

I appreciate everyone's input, but I really don't think this is a compression problem.

Agreed, but folks here are saying your problems might have to do with the "encoding" process, where audio is mixed with the compressed video.

Perhaps iDVD is not muxing the video/audio correctly when fed this particular AVI. (I don't know - never used iDVD before).

Try encoding the video in Premiere using one of the DVD MPEG2 presets - set the audio to AC3. Then let iDVD burn *that* file. If iDVD is worth its salt it should not re-encode the already DVD compliant file (i.e. it should burn it much quicker than a plain AVI).

Andy Peterson · December 9th, 2005, 09:35 PM

Ok, I will definetely try that. Thanks guys.

Unfortunately my editor has gone home for the weekend and brought all his gear with him!

Just to clarify though, we made the right choice editing in 29.97fps correct?

The Sony Cineframe24 is just an effect and doesn't really record 24 frames per second?
That's what I've been told so that is why we didn't edit in 24p.

This is a tough way to learn a lesson!

...Andy

George Griswold · December 10th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Dear Andy,

Regardless of where the problem with the DVD is coming from I would avoid using the Cine Frame 24. I just think it is too herky-jerky and I would try the Cine Frame 30 next time. I am not trying to rub salt in your wounds or be a smart-ass, it is just a word of caution for your future projects. Sometimes things don't work out... try not to internalize it too much. There still may be an easy answer to your problem.

I just spent way to much time trying to extract video from a VCD. Tried Sorenson, direct import, on and on..... I ended up shooting it off the computer screen which was OK because it was a low resolution medical camera. Problem solved. I feel better now.

Take care,
George

George Griswold · December 10th, 2005, 01:47 PM

Is just an effect... Adam Wilt has a full discusion of his site www.adamwilt.com

Bill Pryor · December 10th, 2005, 07:35 PM

Your problem could start with your original export. I edit on Avid Xpress Pro, and for DVD authoring I export from Avid to an uncompressed Quicktime. You have to have the drive space to do that, but it makes a huge difference over the normal Avid codec QT. A half hour program that may be 5 or 6 gigs will expand to about 50 gigs and take maybe an hour or two to export, but it's worth it when you do the m2v compression for the DVD. Then, when doing your DVD, check our data rate settings and use a variable data rate if you have the capability. If you have Cleaner or Sorensen, you can do your compression there and make a big difference.

You said the program looked good on your computer monitor, but what about your NTSC monitor? Assuming it looks OK in your NTSC monitor, then most likely all your problem is in your DVD encoding. I've seen some stuff shot with the CF 24 on DVD and it looked OK. However, it was shot HDV, not DV.

December 9th, 2005, 12:04 PM	#1
Andy Peterson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 62	Disaster! Today is not a good day. We just finished editing a rough copy of a short film we just shot so our musicians have something to watch while they write. The footage looks great and has always looked great on our editor's COMPUTER. Once I burned a DVD of the movie, the 'you know what' hit the fan. Every movement looks like crap. It is almost pixelated and looks real blocky. It is not a subtle motion blur like we expected, it looks HORRIBLE. Also, all of the audio sounds muddy and is very low. You have to crank the TV to even hear it, and even then it sounds like crap and there is a buzz. We monitored the audio correctly, and it recorded right. I know this because it plays back on the computer very well. Everything looks and sounds GREAT on the editor's computer but is unwatchable when burned to DVD or exported to tape. Before you ask, we shot in Cineframe24. It is my FX1 so everyone wants to kill me! Does anyone have any suggestions?? We are editing in Premiere. I appreciate any help. ...Andy

December 9th, 2005, 01:08 PM	#2
Douglas Villalba Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami, Florida, USA Posts: 479	If the movie looks good and sounds good when you see it on a HD monitor and good speakers then you just have to re-compress the mpeg file. Sometimes using too high of a bit rate would do that to the image specially on the dark areas. What compression were you using? __________________ Douglas Villalba - director/cinematographer/editor Miami, Florida, USA - www.DVtvPRODUCTIONS.com

December 9th, 2005, 03:30 PM	#7
Douglas Villalba Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami, Florida, USA Posts: 479	What exactly are you using to compress and author your DVDs? __________________ Douglas Villalba - director/cinematographer/editor Miami, Florida, USA - www.DVtvPRODUCTIONS.com

December 9th, 2005, 04:13 PM	#8
George Griswold Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 218	Encore I cut on AVID Xpress Pro HD and had all kinds of problems making clean DVD's--problems independent of the editing software, but rather the encoding stage. I tried Encore with fabulous results and it takes some experimentation to hit the sweet spot of bit rate, and all the other settings that are largely undocumented. I think you can download a trial of Encore--- might want to try that. Don't go crazy with high bit-rates because some players can't handle it-- I think I used 6000-7000; top end is 9000 I think. Also if there is an AC-3 option take that. __________________ George T. Griswold, Jr. www.videonow.info New Orleans

December 10th, 2005, 01:45 PM	#13
George Griswold Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 218	Cf 24 Dear Andy, Regardless of where the problem with the DVD is coming from I would avoid using the Cine Frame 24. I just think it is too herky-jerky and I would try the Cine Frame 30 next time. I am not trying to rub salt in your wounds or be a smart-ass, it is just a word of caution for your future projects. Sometimes things don't work out... try not to internalize it too much. There still may be an easy answer to your problem. I just spent way to much time trying to extract video from a VCD. Tried Sorenson, direct import, on and on..... I ended up shooting it off the computer screen which was OK because it was a low resolution medical camera. Problem solved. I feel better now. Take care, George __________________ George T. Griswold, Jr. www.videonow.info New Orleans

December 9th, 2005, 01:11 PM	#3
Andy Peterson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 62	Hello! Thanks for the reply. We actually didn't shoot in hi-def. We shot in 480i in DV wide rec. mode. (which my prof later pointed out was a stupid decision) We exported the movie from Premiere as an AVI and I brought it into iDVD to burn it. Anyone else? I need an resolution quick or I'm dead! ...Andy

December 9th, 2005, 02:05 PM	#5
Jim Montgomery Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vero Beach Posts: 392	Try rendering it as an Mpeg2 file, upper field first, video only. Then render your audio as a wav file. Combine the two in your dvd authoring software as see if thats an improvement.

December 9th, 2005, 02:29 PM	#6
Andy Peterson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 62	Let's just 'pretend' I am not completely sure how to do this. Can you give me a quick explanation? I'm a Mac guy so I've never dealt with this kind of thing before.

December 9th, 2005, 06:28 PM	#9
Andy Peterson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 62	Hey guys, Like I said I just exported the movie from Premiere as an AVI and dumped it onto my computer in an iDVD project and burned it. Plain and simple. I have never had this problem before. Cineframe24 is fake 24p so we should still be editing in 29.97fps correct? My prof thinks that the audio was recorded on a track that isn't being played back once exported. Does the FX1 record sound in hi-fi? At my school if we turn on the hi-fi on the svhs deck the sound will play back properly. I appreciate everyone's input, but I really don't think this is a compression problem. It was not recorded in hi-def. Thanks for your help, ...Andy

December 9th, 2005, 07:06 PM	#10
Jim Montgomery Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vero Beach Posts: 392	In Premier go to Export, Movie, clik on settings, under file type in the General Tab select MainConcept MPEG, select Key Frame and Rendering and be sure that it says "upper field first". And by the way the only cinefame mode that looks any good is 30. Then you have to capture as progressive....etc, etc...... The camera works best when it is set at 1080i

December 9th, 2005, 09:35 PM	#12
Andy Peterson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 62	Ok, I will definetely try that. Thanks guys. Unfortunately my editor has gone home for the weekend and brought all his gear with him! Just to clarify though, we made the right choice editing in 29.97fps correct? The Sony Cineframe24 is just an effect and doesn't really record 24 frames per second? That's what I've been told so that is why we didn't edit in 24p. This is a tough way to learn a lesson! ...Andy

December 10th, 2005, 01:47 PM	#14
George Griswold Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 218	Cine Frame 24 Is just an effect... Adam Wilt has a full discusion of his site www.adamwilt.com __________________ George T. Griswold, Jr. www.videonow.info New Orleans

December 10th, 2005, 07:35 PM	#15
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Your problem could start with your original export. I edit on Avid Xpress Pro, and for DVD authoring I export from Avid to an uncompressed Quicktime. You have to have the drive space to do that, but it makes a huge difference over the normal Avid codec QT. A half hour program that may be 5 or 6 gigs will expand to about 50 gigs and take maybe an hour or two to export, but it's worth it when you do the m2v compression for the DVD. Then, when doing your DVD, check our data rate settings and use a variable data rate if you have the capability. If you have Cleaner or Sorensen, you can do your compression there and make a big difference. You said the program looked good on your computer monitor, but what about your NTSC monitor? Assuming it looks OK in your NTSC monitor, then most likely all your problem is in your DVD encoding. I've seen some stuff shot with the CF 24 on DVD and it looked OK. However, it was shot HDV, not DV.