FX-1 vs. Canon GL2 at DVinfo.net

Gary Marks · November 23rd, 2005, 09:02 AM

I am a new fx-1 owner and also own a Canon GL2. It seems to me that the GL2 has more vivid and saturated colors than the Sony FX-1. The reds and greens and blues in the Canon seem to jump off the screen . I have tried to recreate the same color effects in the Sony but haven't been able to. Is this just me or is there something I'm missing.

Tom Roper · November 23rd, 2005, 09:28 AM

I think you should be comparing them to the Canon XL-H1 so you are not associating the HDV color space to the brand of camera.

My judgment after viewing Kaku's clips from the XL-H1 and Douglas Spotted Eagle's from the Z1U was a preference for the latitude and color of the Sony clips, so that's how my decision was made.

Chris Hurd · November 23rd, 2005, 09:41 AM

Hi Gary,

Canon has a tendency to produce a warmer image, but you can dig into the menu settings on both cameras and access the proper image controls to get them to match up somewhat. Let us know how that process goes for you. Tweaking a GL2 and an FX1 toward each other would be a very interesting topic to read about. Welcome to DV Info Net,

Gary Marks · November 23rd, 2005, 09:58 AM

I am trying to get them to match because I use both cameras in a 2 camera set up. Right now I am shooting in DV mode in the sony because I am waiting for the software to be able to edit the HDV images. Supposedly (since I have a SONY Vaio computer) their standard DVGATE software has the ability to capture HDV film into a usable .AVI file. I'll try that next.

During my 2 camera shoot I had the SOny set in the stock PP3 profile which they say creates the warmest flesh tones and people shots. THe Canon seems to have more vibrant colors but its not really fair comparison for this shoot because the SOny was much farther away and the Canon was closer to the stage I was shooting.

I mainly shoot kids plays at school. Family events and vacation footage. If anyone has any settings that they can share I would love to hear about it.

Tommy James · November 23rd, 2005, 10:14 AM

Steve Mullen claimed that the single chip JVC HDV camera gave better color reproduction than the Sony FX-1. This is because JVC uses pixel shifting technology to increase the color information to a near 3CCD level. People were very angry when Steve said that because the people who bought the Sony thought they had a real advantage over the JVC. However the Sony had the better low light performence so Steve would always bring along a sun gun so he could be competetive.

Tom Roper · November 23rd, 2005, 10:29 AM

As an owner of the single chip GR-HD1 that I'm quite fond of, I nevertheless would have to respectfully disagree about the claim for its color superiority over FX1. I suspect that Steve has reconsidered his earlier position, because color reproduction is quite a strength for the FX1/Z1U series.

Chris Hurd · November 23rd, 2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy James

the single chip JVC HDV camera gave better color reproduction than the Sony FX-1. This is because JVC uses pixel shifting technology to increase the color information to a near 3CCD level.

No, I suspect it had more to do with the hybrid color filter in the JVC than anything else.

But now we're drifting needlessly off-topic. Let's stay focused please on how to best match the GL2 with the FX1, as per Gary's request in this thread.

Chris Hurd · November 23rd, 2005, 11:11 AM

Geez, barely fifteen minutes have passed and I've already had to pull a ridiculous off-topic response from this thread... once again, the subject here is how to best match the GL2 with the FX1. Any helpful input on that is most welcome.

Alex Horvath · November 23rd, 2005, 11:48 AM

The easiest way is to rent a small videomixer, hooking up both cameras with a split DVE. It´s not a professional way but you get a feeling in which direction you should adjust.
But first try adjusting your monitor switching to colorbar from FX1 or Mixer.

Alex

Steven White · November 23rd, 2005, 01:18 PM

All I know is that if I increase the "Color" control in the picture profile menu, the Sony FX1 spews out beautifully vibrant imagery. The default settings (0) does seem a little muted, but is quite accurate when compared to reality.

If you're shooting outdoors and you really want the colours to fly, sometimes a polarizer is the answer.

-Steve

Bryan McCullough · November 23rd, 2005, 03:21 PM

I've got an FX1 and GL2 that I use together often in 2 camera shoots.

The Canon is warmer and the Sony is cooler, by default. But I've matched them pretty well and really like using them together.

I love the FX1 but I still think the GL2 is an amazing bang for your buck. It's a wonderful little camera.

Gary Marks · November 23rd, 2005, 07:01 PM

Can you share your settings with me. I'm dying to know how to get them to match.

Bryan McCullough · November 23rd, 2005, 08:37 PM

I don't have my cams with me and won't until after the holidays, but generally I just do a white balance, then bring the red down on the GL2 a bit and it matches pretty well.

If it's a serious deal, I always match color in post as well to get it perfect.

Martin Doppelbauer · November 27th, 2005, 11:00 AM

Folks, I seem to miss the point here.
Increasing colors on the FX1 to make them more vivid is about as complicated as turning up the volume of an audio file...

Therefore the question is: How REAL do the colors look ?

Being a Canon XM2 owner myself I can only assure you there's a hugh difference between the two. Just try to shoot a bright red subject (like a red dress or something) with the Canon. Looks horrible.
Do the same with the FX1 and it's absolutely great.
In general the color reproduction of the Sony is much much better than the Canon.

November 23rd, 2005, 09:02 AM	#1
Gary Marks Tourist Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4	FX-1 vs. Canon GL2 I am a new fx-1 owner and also own a Canon GL2. It seems to me that the GL2 has more vivid and saturated colors than the Sony FX-1. The reds and greens and blues in the Canon seem to jump off the screen . I have tried to recreate the same color effects in the Sony but haven't been able to. Is this just me or is there something I'm missing.

November 23rd, 2005, 09:41 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Gary, Canon has a tendency to produce a warmer image, but you can dig into the menu settings on both cameras and access the proper image controls to get them to match up somewhat. Let us know how that process goes for you. Tweaking a GL2 and an FX1 toward each other would be a very interesting topic to read about. Welcome to DV Info Net, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 23rd, 2005, 09:58 AM	#4
Gary Marks Tourist Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4	Thanks for the reply I am trying to get them to match because I use both cameras in a 2 camera set up. Right now I am shooting in DV mode in the sony because I am waiting for the software to be able to edit the HDV images. Supposedly (since I have a SONY Vaio computer) their standard DVGATE software has the ability to capture HDV film into a usable .AVI file. I'll try that next. During my 2 camera shoot I had the SOny set in the stock PP3 profile which they say creates the warmest flesh tones and people shots. THe Canon seems to have more vibrant colors but its not really fair comparison for this shoot because the SOny was much farther away and the Canon was closer to the stage I was shooting. I mainly shoot kids plays at school. Family events and vacation footage. If anyone has any settings that they can share I would love to hear about it.

November 23rd, 2005, 11:11 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Geez, barely fifteen minutes have passed and I've already had to pull a ridiculous off-topic response from this thread... once again, the subject here is how to best match the GL2 with the FX1. Any helpful input on that is most welcome. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 23rd, 2005, 07:01 PM	#12
Gary Marks Tourist Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4	What;s your secret Can you share your settings with me. I'm dying to know how to get them to match.

November 23rd, 2005, 09:28 AM	#2
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I think you should be comparing them to the Canon XL-H1 so you are not associating the HDV color space to the brand of camera. My judgment after viewing Kaku's clips from the XL-H1 and Douglas Spotted Eagle's from the Z1U was a preference for the latitude and color of the Sony clips, so that's how my decision was made.

November 23rd, 2005, 10:14 AM	#5
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	Steve Mullen claimed that the single chip JVC HDV camera gave better color reproduction than the Sony FX-1. This is because JVC uses pixel shifting technology to increase the color information to a near 3CCD level. People were very angry when Steve said that because the people who bought the Sony thought they had a real advantage over the JVC. However the Sony had the better low light performence so Steve would always bring along a sun gun so he could be competetive.

November 23rd, 2005, 10:29 AM	#6
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	As an owner of the single chip GR-HD1 that I'm quite fond of, I nevertheless would have to respectfully disagree about the claim for its color superiority over FX1. I suspect that Steve has reconsidered his earlier position, because color reproduction is quite a strength for the FX1/Z1U series.

November 23rd, 2005, 11:48 AM	#9
Alex Horvath Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Innsbruck,Austria Posts: 45	The easiest way is to rent a small videomixer, hooking up both cameras with a split DVE. It´s not a professional way but you get a feeling in which direction you should adjust. But first try adjusting your monitor switching to colorbar from FX1 or Mixer. Alex

November 23rd, 2005, 01:18 PM	#10
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	All I know is that if I increase the "Color" control in the picture profile menu, the Sony FX1 spews out beautifully vibrant imagery. The default settings (0) does seem a little muted, but is quite accurate when compared to reality. If you're shooting outdoors and you really want the colours to fly, sometimes a polarizer is the answer. -Steve

November 23rd, 2005, 03:21 PM	#11
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	I've got an FX1 and GL2 that I use together often in 2 camera shoots. The Canon is warmer and the Sony is cooler, by default. But I've matched them pretty well and really like using them together. I love the FX1 but I still think the GL2 is an amazing bang for your buck. It's a wonderful little camera.

November 23rd, 2005, 08:37 PM	#13
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	I don't have my cams with me and won't until after the holidays, but generally I just do a white balance, then bring the red down on the GL2 a bit and it matches pretty well. If it's a serious deal, I always match color in post as well to get it perfect.

November 27th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#14
Martin Doppelbauer Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany Posts: 80	Folks, I seem to miss the point here. Increasing colors on the FX1 to make them more vivid is about as complicated as turning up the volume of an audio file... Therefore the question is: How REAL do the colors look ? Being a Canon XM2 owner myself I can only assure you there's a hugh difference between the two. Just try to shoot a bright red subject (like a red dress or something) with the Canon. Looks horrible. Do the same with the FX1 and it's absolutely great. In general the color reproduction of the Sony is much much better than the Canon.