Getting the warm colour and DoF effect in Z1 at DVinfo.net

Johannes Soetandi · January 17th, 2010, 11:11 PM

Hi all, please welcome me to this forum and to the world of videography. I must admit that I am extremely new with videography world - I've only been editing short clips/movies using standard config on FDX100 so my picture quality is very plain.

However, I'm starting to move into the business of making a higher quality short clip. Hiring a Z1 for the weekend to do some shooting during day and night time and really want to have the best picture quality.

I have two questions, can someone please help in the simplest possible way of explanation :)

1. How do I get a warm colour for my video? or is this something I can only achieve in video editor?

2. How do I get the best DoF effect? Any recommended setting to start off with? Do I need specific lens for this? I need this for almost every scene so that I have a warm blurred background and keeping my actors in focus.

Any kind of help is greatly appreciated. :)

Cheers,

John

Daniel Lundmark · January 18th, 2010, 03:10 AM

Hi Johannes, for warm color I suggest playing with the Picture Profile settings to suit your taste. I would create presets for various environments. There are suggested presets on this forum if you do a search.

For DOF control, there are many opinions on this, but the simplest way to achieve a narrow DOF look with the Z1 is to get a little farther away from your subject and zoom in, while the Iris is set to manual and is as open as possible (lowest number 1.6 etc, depending on zoom level). Outdoors in daylight you'll need to use the ND filters to allow keeping the iris open.

Another way to really get DOF control is to use a 35mm adapter and 35mm lenses. There are many options for this but in my view it's clumsy to manage, with all the extra equipment (I have one). Search these forums for a lot of discussion on these devices if you're interested.

Welcome, and I hope that helps!

Peace, Dan

Brett Griffin · January 18th, 2010, 05:59 PM

Vortex Media produce Warm Cards. They are varying shades of blue so when you White Balance off them, it tricks your camera into making blue turn white which in effect warms up the image.

A friend of mine uses them, but i still prefer to colour correct the image in post.

Heres the link for all the info.
WarmCards - White Balance Reference System

As far as DOF, Ditto above post.

Johannes Soetandi · January 19th, 2010, 03:18 AM

Thanks for all the info!

Found some picture profile setting threads and can't wait to get my hands on the camera to start fiddling around and see the quality it gives.

I will stick with your recommended setting to get the DoF. Do I need to adjust the aperture or is that automatically adjusted with the IRIS setting?

Also, this may be out of topic - what is the difference between wide angle adapter and lens? how much of a wide-angle difference it could make comparing between the two?

Cheers,

John :)

Tom Hardwick · January 19th, 2010, 05:06 AM

Hi John,

Good stuff spoken here and to re-iterate:

For the greatest differential focus

1) Use max telephoto
2) use max aperture (f/2.8)
3) get as close as possible
4) have the background as far away as possible.
5) have foreground blurry items (leaves?) to exaggerate the effect.

Remember you're using a camera with tiny chips and (therefore) very short focal length lenses. The easiest way to get less dof is to use a camera with bigger chips - the EX1, D7 etc.

A wide-angle converter will convert your zoom lens. Let's take a simple example. You have a 5 to 50 mm 10x zoom. You add a 0.5x converter and end up with a 2.5 to 25 mm zoom. It's still a 10x zoom, it still has the same max aperture range.

If you fit a wide-angle adapter it will limit the zoom you end up with - so a 0.5x will change your 10x zoom into a 6x, something like 2.5 to 15 mm.

Adapters are more compact and generally cheaper than converters.

A 0.5x wide will make a dramatic difference to your shots, a 0.8x less so. But the 0.5x will often give you greater distortion and lose you more sharpness.

Warming. The Z1 allows you to program the assign buttons, and I have buttons 4 and 5 as colour balance fine-tune on mine. Want to quickly warm the scene? Click button 5. Cool it? Button 4. The more clicks the greater the effect, and it's visible in the v'finders.

tom.

Johannes Soetandi · January 19th, 2010, 08:16 PM

Those are some very handy tips!

How much of a difference in terms of DoF would EX1 made to Z1? Because I now have two options:

1. Get the Z1
2. Get the EX1 with telephoto adapter

But Option 2 will cost me more. Just wanna make sure it is worth the extra expense I'm putting in.

It's hard to make judgement until I have my hands on the camera itself. I have about an hour to try and compare the two cameras this Friday but just wanna get my knowledge up a notch before going into the store. :)

Many thanks friends I really appreciate your help!

Cheers,

John

Tom Hardwick · January 20th, 2010, 01:36 AM

The EX1's lens is faster at full telephoto (it has a wider aperture) and it's a longer focal length - and both of these will reduce the dof. Of course the difference is subtle, whereas going to a Canon 5DII for instance the difference is far from subtle - the limited dof is right in your face.

Not sure what you mean by telephoto adapter. You mean a simple bayonet-on focal length extender of a full-blown 35 mm lens adapter? The latter will give you what you want, but the learning curve is steeper, the costs far higher.

You say, 'I need this for almost every scene so that I have a warm blurred background and keeping my actors in focus', so it sounds to me as if the EX1 won't be capable enough of doing this on it's own - you'll be tied down by being forced to use max aperture and max telephoto.

tom.

Philip Howells · January 22nd, 2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

A wide-angle converter will convert your zoom lens. Let's take a simple example. You have a 5 to 50 mm 10x zoom. You add a 0.5x converter and end up with a 2.5 to 25 mm zoom. It's still a 10x zoom, it still has the same max aperture range.

Joehannes to add to Tom's advice, you should also note that some wide-angle adapters are not "zoom through" which means the lens must be set to maximum wide angle itself and you can't zoom at all.

Tom Hardwick · January 23rd, 2010, 08:26 AM

That's why I was differentiating between the adapters and the converters, Phillip - the converters convert the entire zoom range - i.e. they're by nature zoom-through lenses.

I know there are zoom lens designs that mean a wide adapter has to be used at max wide and no zooming is tolerated at all, but most all camcorders will still allow you to use 50 or 60% of the zoom's original ratio with a 'non zoom-through' adapter.

tom.

January 17th, 2010, 11:11 PM	#1
Johannes Soetandi Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 387	Getting the warm colour and DoF effect in Z1 Hi all, please welcome me to this forum and to the world of videography. I must admit that I am extremely new with videography world - I've only been editing short clips/movies using standard config on FDX100 so my picture quality is very plain. However, I'm starting to move into the business of making a higher quality short clip. Hiring a Z1 for the weekend to do some shooting during day and night time and really want to have the best picture quality. I have two questions, can someone please help in the simplest possible way of explanation :) 1. How do I get a warm colour for my video? or is this something I can only achieve in video editor? 2. How do I get the best DoF effect? Any recommended setting to start off with? Do I need specific lens for this? I need this for almost every scene so that I have a warm blurred background and keeping my actors in focus. Any kind of help is greatly appreciated. :) Cheers, John

January 18th, 2010, 03:10 AM	#2
Daniel Lundmark New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 12	Z1 warm color and narrow DOF Hi Johannes, for warm color I suggest playing with the Picture Profile settings to suit your taste. I would create presets for various environments. There are suggested presets on this forum if you do a search. For DOF control, there are many opinions on this, but the simplest way to achieve a narrow DOF look with the Z1 is to get a little farther away from your subject and zoom in, while the Iris is set to manual and is as open as possible (lowest number 1.6 etc, depending on zoom level). Outdoors in daylight you'll need to use the ND filters to allow keeping the iris open. Another way to really get DOF control is to use a 35mm adapter and 35mm lenses. There are many options for this but in my view it's clumsy to manage, with all the extra equipment (I have one). Search these forums for a lot of discussion on these devices if you're interested. Welcome, and I hope that helps! Peace, Dan

January 18th, 2010, 05:59 PM	#3
Brett Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 80	Warm Cards vs Doing it in Post Vortex Media produce Warm Cards. They are varying shades of blue so when you White Balance off them, it tricks your camera into making blue turn white which in effect warms up the image. A friend of mine uses them, but i still prefer to colour correct the image in post. Heres the link for all the info. WarmCards - White Balance Reference System As far as DOF, Ditto above post. __________________ www.griffinvideoproductions.com.au \| Sony Z1 and FX1 \| Windows 7 x64 \| i7-920 OC 3.6GHZ \| 12gb DDR3 \| CS5.5 Master Collection

January 19th, 2010, 03:18 AM	#4
Johannes Soetandi Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 387	Thanks for all the info! Found some picture profile setting threads and can't wait to get my hands on the camera to start fiddling around and see the quality it gives. I will stick with your recommended setting to get the DoF. Do I need to adjust the aperture or is that automatically adjusted with the IRIS setting? Also, this may be out of topic - what is the difference between wide angle adapter and lens? how much of a wide-angle difference it could make comparing between the two? Cheers, John :)

January 19th, 2010, 05:06 AM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Hi John, Good stuff spoken here and to re-iterate: For the greatest differential focus 1) Use max telephoto 2) use max aperture (f/2.8) 3) get as close as possible 4) have the background as far away as possible. 5) have foreground blurry items (leaves?) to exaggerate the effect. Remember you're using a camera with tiny chips and (therefore) very short focal length lenses. The easiest way to get less dof is to use a camera with bigger chips - the EX1, D7 etc. A wide-angle converter will convert your zoom lens. Let's take a simple example. You have a 5 to 50 mm 10x zoom. You add a 0.5x converter and end up with a 2.5 to 25 mm zoom. It's still a 10x zoom, it still has the same max aperture range. If you fit a wide-angle adapter it will limit the zoom you end up with - so a 0.5x will change your 10x zoom into a 6x, something like 2.5 to 15 mm. Adapters are more compact and generally cheaper than converters. A 0.5x wide will make a dramatic difference to your shots, a 0.8x less so. But the 0.5x will often give you greater distortion and lose you more sharpness. Warming. The Z1 allows you to program the assign buttons, and I have buttons 4 and 5 as colour balance fine-tune on mine. Want to quickly warm the scene? Click button 5. Cool it? Button 4. The more clicks the greater the effect, and it's visible in the v'finders. tom.

January 19th, 2010, 08:16 PM	#6
Johannes Soetandi Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 387	Those are some very handy tips! How much of a difference in terms of DoF would EX1 made to Z1? Because I now have two options: 1. Get the Z1 2. Get the EX1 with telephoto adapter But Option 2 will cost me more. Just wanna make sure it is worth the extra expense I'm putting in. It's hard to make judgement until I have my hands on the camera itself. I have about an hour to try and compare the two cameras this Friday but just wanna get my knowledge up a notch before going into the store. :) Many thanks friends I really appreciate your help! Cheers, John

January 20th, 2010, 01:36 AM	#7
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The EX1's lens is faster at full telephoto (it has a wider aperture) and it's a longer focal length - and both of these will reduce the dof. Of course the difference is subtle, whereas going to a Canon 5DII for instance the difference is far from subtle - the limited dof is right in your face. Not sure what you mean by telephoto adapter. You mean a simple bayonet-on focal length extender of a full-blown 35 mm lens adapter? The latter will give you what you want, but the learning curve is steeper, the costs far higher. You say, 'I need this for almost every scene so that I have a warm blurred background and keeping my actors in focus', so it sounds to me as if the EX1 won't be capable enough of doing this on it's own - you'll be tied down by being forced to use max aperture and max telephoto. tom.

January 23rd, 2010, 08:26 AM	#9
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	That's why I was differentiating between the adapters and the converters, Phillip - the converters convert the entire zoom range - i.e. they're by nature zoom-through lenses. I know there are zoom lens designs that mean a wide adapter has to be used at max wide and no zooming is tolerated at all, but most all camcorders will still allow you to use 50 or 60% of the zoom's original ratio with a 'non zoom-through' adapter. tom.