Cinematone = DCC ???? at DVinfo.net

Augusto Manuel · June 17th, 2005, 08:40 AM

If I am not mistaken, Cinematone is almost the same as what Sony calls DCC, DCC+, Dynamic Latitude in their more expensive cameras. Does anybody know for sure this? I would think that Cinematone 1 = DCC+ while Cinematone 2 = DL .

If this is true, Cinematone (either 1 or 2) should be ON most of the time, except perhaps in night time scenes or scenes with very flat frequency response curve. And to compensate for the blacks, Black Stretch should also be ON most of the time and particularly when Cinematone is ON or when shooting in dark or low light surroundings.

Jerry Waters · June 18th, 2005, 03:36 PM

Quoting Steve Mullen on another thread:
"However, if you turn on CineTone you will kill shadow detail -- never use it.

"On the Z1 use Black Stretch to give you more shadow detail."

Augusto Manuel · June 19th, 2005, 01:38 AM

Cinematone is to be used in combination with Black stretch to avoid getting rid of shadow detail. One should never say never.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Waters

Quoting Steve Mullen on another thread:
"However, if you turn on CineTone you will kill shadow detail -- never use it.

"On the Z1 use Black Stretch to give you more shadow detail."

Augusto Manuel · June 23rd, 2005, 06:46 PM

I shot with Z1 in DVcam mode just recently. I used Cinematone 1 and Black Stretch on, with good results. The trick is to set the pedestal in the camera at 7.5 IRE instead of 0 . This way you still see a good amount of detail in dark areas when you use Cinematone 1. Otherwise, I agree you can kill the shadow detail specially if you use Cinematone 2 and Pedestal at 0. The worst combination is:
Cinematone 2 ON, Black Stretch OFF, Pedestal 0 . Unless you are going for some sort of effect, refrain to set your camera that way.

If you are shooting in low light, switch off Cinematone and switch on Black Stretch. If shooting in DVcam mode in low light, set pedestal at 7.5 IRE. If shooting in HDV in low light, in addition to all of the above, set your camera at ss 1/30. As someone said before, the loss in resolution when shooting at 1/30 ss is much less in HDV mode than when you shoot in DVcam mode. Even if you downconvert, the resolution loss is minimized when you shoot 1/30 ss in HDV. And refrain to shoot at 1/30 ss in HDV mode, regardless if low light or not, when the shoot involves fast moving subjects or fast camera moves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Waters

Quoting Steve Mullen on another thread:
"However, if you turn on CineTone you will kill shadow detail -- never use it.

"On the Z1 use Black Stretch to give you more shadow detail."

Betsy Moore · June 23rd, 2005, 11:43 PM

Hi Augustus, what is 1/30 ss and why does it cause resolution loss?

I've been playing around with cinematone lately and like it a lot but I only found one, in the picture setup menu, where do you find cinematone 1 and 2 and black stretch? Or is that only on the Z1--I have the FX1.

Augusto Manuel · June 24th, 2005, 12:00 AM

Yes, it is only on the Z1. The FX-1 has only one type of Cinematone. I guess the FX-1 does not have BlackStretch if you can't find it in the Picture Profile settings. Black Stretch opens up the blacks so you can see more detail in shadow areas and found it quite useful in this type of camera. It is not the programmable type like the one found in more expensive cameras or in the DVX-100 where you can dial different settings of Black Stretch. 1/30 ss i meant as 1/30 shutter speed. Cuts down vertical resolution because of the field doubling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy Moore

Hi Augustus, what is 1/30 ss and why does it cause resolution loss?

I've been playing around with cinematone lately and like it a lot but I only found one, in the picture setup menu, where do you find cinematone 1 and 2 and black stretch? Or is that only on the Z1--I have the FX1.

Eric Lagerlof · June 24th, 2005, 12:44 AM

Only 1 cinematone setting-on/off, on the FX-1. I'm not seeing a pedestal/black level adjustment on my FX-1 either. Have to adjust blacks in post. Thanks for observations Augusto. BTW, I'm just to the south of you in Pacifica. Good to see a bay area local on the boards.

Bjorn Moren · June 24th, 2005, 08:18 AM

There seem to be very few differences between the FX1 and Z1, hardware-wise. And many of the features we discuss seem to be done in camera software. I wonder if one could upload Z1 firmware into a FX1 and get most of the Z1 specific features.

Jerry Waters · June 25th, 2005, 07:32 AM

Thanks for info, Augusto. Like I said, I was only quoting someone else. Since then I've been experimenting with my Z1 and really like the CineTone look. I plan to shoot a feature length movie and will be using it most of the time. I have few scenes of fast action. The work is pretty evenly divided interior/exterior, dau/nights and a little effects - flashback and one dream sequence All suggestions are appreciated.

June 17th, 2005, 08:40 AM	#1
Augusto Manuel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: san francisco california Posts: 145	Cinematone = DCC ???? If I am not mistaken, Cinematone is almost the same as what Sony calls DCC, DCC+, Dynamic Latitude in their more expensive cameras. Does anybody know for sure this? I would think that Cinematone 1 = DCC+ while Cinematone 2 = DL . If this is true, Cinematone (either 1 or 2) should be ON most of the time, except perhaps in night time scenes or scenes with very flat frequency response curve. And to compensate for the blacks, Black Stretch should also be ON most of the time and particularly when Cinematone is ON or when shooting in dark or low light surroundings. Last edited by Augusto Manuel; June 18th, 2005 at 12:51 AM.

June 18th, 2005, 03:36 PM	#2
Jerry Waters Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 136	Quoting Steve Mullen on another thread: "However, if you turn on CineTone you will kill shadow detail -- never use it. "On the Z1 use Black Stretch to give you more shadow detail." __________________ Jerry Waters Arize Productions

June 24th, 2005, 08:18 AM	#8
Bjorn Moren Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 65	Making a Z1 out of a FX1 There seem to be very few differences between the FX1 and Z1, hardware-wise. And many of the features we discuss seem to be done in camera software. I wonder if one could upload Z1 firmware into a FX1 and get most of the Z1 specific features.

June 25th, 2005, 07:32 AM	#9
Jerry Waters Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 136	Thanks for info, Augusto. Like I said, I was only quoting someone else. Since then I've been experimenting with my Z1 and really like the CineTone look. I plan to shoot a feature length movie and will be using it most of the time. I have few scenes of fast action. The work is pretty evenly divided interior/exterior, dau/nights and a little effects - flashback and one dream sequence All suggestions are appreciated. __________________ Jerry Waters Arize Productions

June 23rd, 2005, 11:43 PM	#5
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Hi Augustus, what is 1/30 ss and why does it cause resolution loss? I've been playing around with cinematone lately and like it a lot but I only found one, in the picture setup menu, where do you find cinematone 1 and 2 and black stretch? Or is that only on the Z1--I have the FX1.

June 24th, 2005, 12:44 AM	#7
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Only 1 cinematone setting-on/off, on the FX-1. I'm not seeing a pedestal/black level adjustment on my FX-1 either. Have to adjust blacks in post. Thanks for observations Augusto. BTW, I'm just to the south of you in Pacifica. Good to see a bay area local on the boards.