Is It Impossible?

[Ben Hardy]

I’ve spent the past five hours, desperately trying to figure out HOW to Record HDV with my FX1, and at the same time, record a DV SD 3:4 signal to a Sony DV Deck.
Several reviewers have stated this could be done, but I sure can’t seem to figure it out.
Does it only work in Playback? Do you have to first, record to HDV and then convert it to DV? Does it only convert to letter-boxed DV?

I’ve tried using 1394, or Component output signals and each time, the image is either letter-boxed (selecting “TV” 3:4 on the FX1) or vertically stretched (16:9).

Following the Sony manual, I’ve turned OFF the wide rec mode DV (page 40). I’ve tried both the AUTO and DV modes (page 59) in the VCR/HDV/DV menus. In the i.LINK CONV (page 60) I’ve set it at both ON and OFF. OFF disconnects the signal completely. ON is supposed to convert HDV to DV, but the image remains letter-boxed on my SD monitor.
TV TYPE (page 61) illustrates images and how they appear with HDV and DV. The suggestion is made to turn OFF the DV WIDE REC when viewing on a 4:3 standard TV, which of course, I did.

The only way I can get a 3:4 image on the monitor (also on a standard TV) is to set the FX1 to record plain DV! Only then is the 3:4 OAR correctly proportioned.

The HDV pq is really incredible on the FX1, but I have to record a DV SD Master of a 5-day shoot in about a week for a DVD/VHS duplication project. I really wanted to play back the “HDV” version for my clients and demonstrate what we’ll be offering in the future, but now it doesn’t appear possible.


ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS WILL BE DEEPLY APPRECIATED!

Thanks,
Ben

[Lou Bruno]

Z-1 has a cropping feature when down-rezzing. The FX-1 will only letterbox on the down-rez to fit 4:3. How do I know?

I was in the same postion as you a few weeks back....I was stumped.

If you purchase the SONY HD DECK, then you will also have the croping feature for HDV->DV to play in the exact proportions of a 4:3 TV.

It is just a limimtaion of the FX-1 down coversion.

[Barry Green]

Interesting. So you're trying to record the high-def 16:9 image on tape, intact, but have the firewire output a center extraction of a 4:3 DV image...

I don't know about that one. I don't think it's possible, I think you'd have to be recording DV to get a 4:3 image... hopefully someone here will have a better answer, but I think it can't be done.

[Ben Hardy]

Lou,
Thanks for the info. It looks like I made a poor buying decision, based on erroneous information.

I would consider the Sony HD VCR, if it supported standard sized cassettes.

Ben

[Lou Bruno]

We are both out of luck! I have a deck on order. If you want SD $:# right now, you must record in 4:3 SD.

NOTE: The deck supports DV.HDV and DVCAM-only in the minidv format.

[Steven Gotz]

The Z1 has a center cut, the FX1 does not.

It isn't that complicated. Just capture the 16:9 DV and then put it into a 4:3 project. Export back to tape on a DV camera or a deck.

[Ben Hardy]

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Gotz : The Z1 has a center cut, the FX1 does not.

It isn't that complicated. Just capture the 16:9 DV and then put it into a 4:3 project. Export back to tape on a DV camera or a deck. -->>>

Steven,

I would be deeply grateful if you could explain how to create a "4:3 project" after capturing the video in letter-box format. Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but assuming the capture is saved in Premiere, just exactly what do you do?

Thanks ever so much,
Ben

[Steven Gotz]

The trick is to capture it as 16:9 - which it is. Right? So capture it in a wide project. Use a widescreen 48KHz project to capture all of your footage. You might even want to edit in that format to avoid rendering much.

Then, just create a brand new Standard 48KHz project, and import the original project into the new project. Instant "center cut".

You old sequences will be in a bin with the old project's name.

Prove it to yourself. Follow the steps and then click on the Motion effect of one of the clips. You don't see what I mean? OK. Change the zoom of the monitor window from "fit" to 25%. Now you should see that the sides hang over like a fat man with a small belt.

Feel free to (slowly) keyframe the footage so that the very best of the shot is in the frame.

[Ben Hardy]

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Gotz : The trick is to capture it as 16:9 - which it is. Right? So capture it in a wide project. Use a widescreen 48KHz project to capture all of your footage. You might even want to edit in that format to avoid rendering much.
OK.

Then, just create a brand new Standard 48KHz project, and import the original project into the new project. Instant "center cut".

When I import the avi that was saved as above into a Standard 48KHz project, the video imports to the timeline in the same 16:9 aspect ratio. There is no automatic "center cut" happening.
What am I doing wrong?

You old sequences will be in a bin with the old project's name.
Yes


Feel free to (slowly) keyframe the footage so that the very best of the shot is in the frame. -->>>

When I activate the "show keyframes" icon, a horizonal line is positioned across the image in the timeline. I don't understand how to adjust it.


Steven, thank you for your patience. As you can see, I'm a novice working in Premiere.

Your time and efforts helping me or deeply appreciated.
Ben

[Ron Evans]

IF you are using Premiere Pro 1.5.1 just capture the HDV video. Then open a new project as DV, 48K audio and import the HDV file. Place on the time line. Click on the clip in the timeline, open the motion icon in the effects window and click the preview screen. A centre marker will appear that you can move to centre the frame and using the zoom slider you can change the size of the image displayed in the 4x3 window all the way to a letterboxed( 16x9) image on the 4x3 frame.
In Edius do much the same but open the layout window and adjust the image size. Both these approaches give more control than a simple center cut but are of course in post.

Ron Evans

[Steven Gotz]

Ben,

Set the zoom to 25%, and then look in the Effect Controls Window. It has nothing to do with the keyframes on the timeline. Use the ECW.

You can just carefully click on the picture in the Monitor window itself, and you will see the outline.

[Ben Hardy]

Thank you Steven and thank you Ron.

I’ve finally been able to overcome my computer shortcomings and following your instructions, rendered the project.
As I only did a simple shoot in my home of various articles (photos, DVCAM boxes with text, etc.) my findings may not be conclusive.
I recorded in native DV, down-converted (16:9) DV and HDV. The FX1’s recording and output functions were set accordingly.
After rendering, I exported back to DV tape. The native DV in OAR was quite good. Better than my VX-2000, so if nothing else, I’ve got a better DV Camera. The 16:9 DV was not quite as sharp. I did set the image to best quality in the Monitor window. When you zoom in to create a 4:3 image, the picture gets even softer. I used the sharpening tool, and it ever so slightly improved the picture, but it was sill noticeably softer than the native DV image.

The HDV performed the best conversion, rendering a high quality DV image, but pixilation on a 30 second clip was excessive (perhaps my P4, 2.8, 1Gig Ram isn’t sufficient for HDV).

In any event, I’ll take the FX1 to my next gig and see how it performs under real-world conditions.


Once again, Guys, Thank you for your patience and guidance,
Ben

[Ron Evans]

Pixelation was probably caused in capture. My AMD XP2500 is also not up to HDV. Both Edius Pro3 and Premiere Pro 1.5.1 will not capture at all without either pixelation or just stopping!!!. But capDVHS and Cineform HDlink will capture m2t just fine and then it takes about 2 times realtime to convert to either CFHD file for Premeire or the Canopus HQ file for Edius. I can then edit just fine with either of these programs. Clearly my XP2500 does not have enough processing power to capture and convert/display in realtime( I am waiting to get a dual core PC in the summer). Try either of these capture methods and they might solve your pixelation issue. My first attempt at doing a 4x3 pan/zoom on HDV clip also resulted in a soft focus output. Focus is very critical in HDV I have since tried to shoot with maximum depth of field using acceptable gain values ( 9db) and have achieved much better results.

Ron Evans

[Ben Hardy]

Hey Ron,
I captured the HDV file using capDVHS as you suggested. How to I convert the mpeg to CFHD?
Thanks,
Ben

[Ron Evans]

Ben you need HDlink from Cineform, its the capture program for Aspect HD. Download the demo of Aspect 3.0 you can then try both. Also try the Edius Pro3 demo as you can put the m2t on the timeline of Edius as well as get Edius to convert to its HQ file format for fast editing.

Ron Evans