anyone noticing DropOut on the HDR-FX1? with regular miniV tapes? at DVinfo.net

Brent Marks · March 23rd, 2005, 01:55 PM

anyone noticing DropOut on the HDR-FX1? with regular miniV tapes?

What do you guys recommend as tape for this camera???
What is the best deal$ on it...?

I am seeing a bit of drop out now and then.... using the 4pack Sony tapes... that are red/green/purple/orange

Please advise

Kurth Bousman · March 23rd, 2005, 05:30 PM

I'm also wondering if dvam tapes are better or the same as using mini dv? Esp. for the z1 , any comments - thanks - Kurth

Barry Green · March 23rd, 2005, 05:51 PM

DVCAM tapes should be more dropout-resistant than DV tapes.

So should the Sony HDV tapes. I mean, the whole point of making these (relatively) expensive tapes is to provide for better dropout protection.

Robert Shuster · March 24th, 2005, 12:09 PM

Sony is very adamit about using at least DVM-63HD "HDV" miniDV cassettes (about $15). They argue very low drop-outs which in MPEG can be nasty. I just got in the new Sony "HDV Master" tape ($25) which is allocated and in great demand with broadcasters. Sean tells me the HDV Master tape is the best in the world with 100's of hours tested with NO drop-outs. Damn well better be great at $25 a pop. In my heart of hearts I feel a brand new middle-and-up grade tape from Sony, JVC or Panasonic should be fine, but I also feel you use good tapes for good projects. Is a buck or two worth the potential problem? Also remember what a DVCPRO50 or HDCAM tape runs per minute. HDV is quite a good deal.

Barry Green · March 24th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Good point. Other HD tapes cost around $50-$80 per hour, so even at $15 for the most-expensive stuff, HDV tape is still really cheap.

Andre De Clercq · March 25th, 2005, 07:12 AM

All tape/head systems show dropouts. MPEG2 data is more difficult to reconstruct when a dropout occurs, so for the same amount of tape defects, more image damage would be seen, BUT, on the other hand HDV has a much more performant error correction concept. The future will show whether or not the new tapes are an invention of smart marketing people...

Brent Marks · March 25th, 2005, 10:37 AM

How many of you out there are seeing alot of dropout on your Sony HDR-FX1 ?

thanks

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 25th, 2005, 10:55 AM

> DVCAM tapes should be more dropout-resistant than DV tapes.

I have yet to see hard evidence of this.

Anyway, one of the first posts I read on this subject was someone using regular Sony DV tape with his new FX1, claiming he saw ONE drop-out in something like 5 or 7 one hour tapes.

Someone else said had used 20 Panasonic US$6 tapes in the JVC HDV prototype and had seen no drops.

I don't own an HDV camera. But I can say I usually use DV SP on my camera and it has gone through about 60 tapes, and I have seen less than ten drops.

Any other quantitive posts of this kind would be great, so we can get a clear idea of what to expect.

Robert Shuster · March 25th, 2005, 12:04 PM

I'll provide three Z1's and 12 different brands and models of tape. You tell me what tapes you wish to test but you must perform the test here in our Burbank, CA store. Preferably on a Saturday (we're open Saturday's). I'll set up a HD plasma, hook up a M10U and put out a dozen chairs and we can all sit and see. Who's feeling lucky???

Eirik Tyrihjel · April 15th, 2005, 03:24 PM

I have shot a bit over 30 hrs with my fx-1, haven´t seen any drop outs so far, using standard (cheap) minidv tapes from Maxell.

Bryan McCullough · April 17th, 2005, 11:32 AM

I've shot about 20 hours with my FX1 using TDK miniDV tapes.

One dropout so far.

Michael Stewart · April 24th, 2005, 02:48 PM

shot around 40 hrs on each of my 3 fx1's, using standard cheap jvc tapes, 0 dropouts.

mike

Kevin Walton · April 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM

Hi people.
I'm tossing up over whether I should buy the PD170 or the FX1 and I've read everything in this thread which has been helpful, but I've also read in reviews about certain problems with the FX1, mainly with audio.

Apparently, the specs on the FX1 say the audio output is 2.5V-3.0V but it's been tested and found that it's actually only 1.8V-2.0V, so the built in mic that is asking for 2.0V doesn't work properly and has clicks and distortions, etc, in the audio, especially when zooming, etc.
Also, the mic apparently picks up every little movement of the users hand on the outside casing of the camera, causing a lot of noise.

Is there anyone here who has bought the FX1 and is able to verify this information?

Can anyone also tell me how good the audio is with the mic that comes standard with the PD170?

I don't have a lot of money to spend on extra accessories such as Mic's, so I need the product that comes with the best accessories straight out of the box.

I was right on the verge of going with the FX1 until I read this stuff about the audio because I quite like the idea of being able to film in native widescreen HDV, even if the low-light performance isn't as good as the PD170, but I think good quality 4:3 video with good sound is probably preferable over excellent 16:9 video with crappy audio.

Augusto Manuel · April 26th, 2005, 02:32 PM

I really dislike when people come with answers that, 'well if your project is important, you should use expensive tape", and blah, blah, blah ...

Well, we are all trying to save money specially when projects have thin profit margins, after all, that was HDV made for. When I should Digi Betacam, I expect to pay more even for tapes because the budget can cover the cost of the tapes w/o problem.

With HDV, quite a bit of the projects we deal, are lower in budget, so many times we are struggling to save even on videotape among other things.

And yes, to answer your question I have shot with my Z1 about 10 hours on Sony Excellence tapes (about $6.50 per tape mail order) and have noticed NO DROP OUT. And I have a friend in Australia who says he only uses Premium tapes because Sony HDV Master Digital tapes are hard to get, and he has not had any problem with the dropout issue shooting with the cheap Premium tapes.

I guess it would be quite interesting and more objective if we would take the offer of that guy in Southern California to see what is the truth with all this tape issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Marks

How many of you out there are seeing alot of dropout on your Sony HDR-FX1 ?

thanks

Bryan McCullough · April 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Walton

Hi people.
I'm tossing up over whether I should buy the PD170 or the FX1 and I've read everything in this thread which has been helpful, but I've also read in reviews about certain problems with the FX1, mainly with audio.

Apparently, the specs on the FX1 say the audio output is 2.5V-3.0V but it's been tested and found that it's actually only 1.8V-2.0V, so the built in mic that is asking for 2.0V doesn't work properly and has clicks and distortions, etc, in the audio, especially when zooming, etc.
Also, the mic apparently picks up every little movement of the users hand on the outside casing of the camera, causing a lot of noise.

Is there anyone here who has bought the FX1 and is able to verify this information?

Can anyone also tell me how good the audio is with the mic that comes standard with the PD170?

I don't have a lot of money to spend on extra accessories such as Mic's, so I need the product that comes with the best accessories straight out of the box.

I was right on the verge of going with the FX1 until I read this stuff about the audio because I quite like the idea of being able to film in native widescreen HDV, even if the low-light performance isn't as good as the PD170, but I think good quality 4:3 video with good sound is probably preferable over excellent 16:9 video with crappy audio.

The FX1's built-in mic is crap. Just like the built-in mic of every other camrea out there.

You must, must, must, must put money into a good external mic if you want any kind of audio at all. It would be best to just picture each camera as not even having a mic and that you'll need to get an audio solution as well as video.

Now, only you know your cash flow. If you can buy the camera now and buy a mic later, that may be an option. If you'll never again spend money on this stuff then get the mic now.

March 23rd, 2005, 01:55 PM	#1
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	anyone noticing DropOut on the HDR-FX1? with regular miniV tapes? anyone noticing DropOut on the HDR-FX1? with regular miniV tapes? What do you guys recommend as tape for this camera??? What is the best deal$ on it...? I am seeing a bit of drop out now and then.... using the 4pack Sony tapes... that are red/green/purple/orange Please advise

March 24th, 2005, 12:09 PM	#4
Robert Shuster Hollywood Studio Rentals Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 24	Good tape for Good projects Sony is very adamit about using at least DVM-63HD "HDV" miniDV cassettes (about $15). They argue very low drop-outs which in MPEG can be nasty. I just got in the new Sony "HDV Master" tape ($25) which is allocated and in great demand with broadcasters. Sean tells me the HDV Master tape is the best in the world with 100's of hours tested with NO drop-outs. Damn well better be great at $25 a pop. In my heart of hearts I feel a brand new middle-and-up grade tape from Sony, JVC or Panasonic should be fine, but I also feel you use good tapes for good projects. Is a buck or two worth the potential problem? Also remember what a DVCPRO50 or HDCAM tape runs per minute. HDV is quite a good deal. __________________ Cheers and Best Wishes

March 25th, 2005, 10:55 AM	#8
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> DVCAM tapes should be more dropout-resistant than DV tapes. I have yet to see hard evidence of this. Anyway, one of the first posts I read on this subject was someone using regular Sony DV tape with his new FX1, claiming he saw ONE drop-out in something like 5 or 7 one hour tapes. Someone else said had used 20 Panasonic US$6 tapes in the JVC HDV prototype and had seen no drops. I don't own an HDV camera. But I can say I usually use DV SP on my camera and it has gone through about 60 tapes, and I have seen less than ten drops. Any other quantitive posts of this kind would be great, so we can get a clear idea of what to expect. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 25th, 2005, 12:04 PM	#9
Robert Shuster Hollywood Studio Rentals Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 24	Sounds like a challenge to me I'll provide three Z1's and 12 different brands and models of tape. You tell me what tapes you wish to test but you must perform the test here in our Burbank, CA store. Preferably on a Saturday (we're open Saturday's). I'll set up a HD plasma, hook up a M10U and put out a dozen chairs and we can all sit and see. Who's feeling lucky??? __________________ Cheers and Best Wishes

April 15th, 2005, 03:24 PM	#10
Eirik Tyrihjel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 84	I have shot a bit over 30 hrs with my fx-1, haven´t seen any drop outs so far, using standard (cheap) minidv tapes from Maxell. __________________ http://www.groovyentertainment.com RED ONE #476

March 23rd, 2005, 05:30 PM	#2
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	I'm also wondering if dvam tapes are better or the same as using mini dv? Esp. for the z1 , any comments - thanks - Kurth

March 23rd, 2005, 05:51 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	DVCAM tapes should be more dropout-resistant than DV tapes. So should the Sony HDV tapes. I mean, the whole point of making these (relatively) expensive tapes is to provide for better dropout protection.

March 24th, 2005, 01:09 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Good point. Other HD tapes cost around $50-$80 per hour, so even at $15 for the most-expensive stuff, HDV tape is still really cheap.

March 25th, 2005, 07:12 AM	#6
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	All tape/head systems show dropouts. MPEG2 data is more difficult to reconstruct when a dropout occurs, so for the same amount of tape defects, more image damage would be seen, BUT, on the other hand HDV has a much more performant error correction concept. The future will show whether or not the new tapes are an invention of smart marketing people...

March 25th, 2005, 10:37 AM	#7
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	How many of you out there are seeing alot of dropout on your Sony HDR-FX1 ? thanks

April 17th, 2005, 11:32 AM	#11
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	I've shot about 20 hours with my FX1 using TDK miniDV tapes. One dropout so far.

April 24th, 2005, 02:48 PM	#12
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	shot around 40 hrs on each of my 3 fx1's, using standard cheap jvc tapes, 0 dropouts. mike

April 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#13
Kevin Walton New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Problems with the FX1's audio? Hi people. I'm tossing up over whether I should buy the PD170 or the FX1 and I've read everything in this thread which has been helpful, but I've also read in reviews about certain problems with the FX1, mainly with audio. Apparently, the specs on the FX1 say the audio output is 2.5V-3.0V but it's been tested and found that it's actually only 1.8V-2.0V, so the built in mic that is asking for 2.0V doesn't work properly and has clicks and distortions, etc, in the audio, especially when zooming, etc. Also, the mic apparently picks up every little movement of the users hand on the outside casing of the camera, causing a lot of noise. Is there anyone here who has bought the FX1 and is able to verify this information? Can anyone also tell me how good the audio is with the mic that comes standard with the PD170? I don't have a lot of money to spend on extra accessories such as Mic's, so I need the product that comes with the best accessories straight out of the box. I was right on the verge of going with the FX1 until I read this stuff about the audio because I quite like the idea of being able to film in native widescreen HDV, even if the low-light performance isn't as good as the PD170, but I think good quality 4:3 video with good sound is probably preferable over excellent 16:9 video with crappy audio.