Hvr-z1e - Bbc Tv?

Derek Serra · March 4th, 2005, 08:29 AM

You're right of course, David. At the end of the day it's the images we produce which will establish HDV or not. I'll be spending a week in Cuba later this month as part of a South African Arts & Culture delegation - amazing opportunities visually to test the FX1's abilities. The true test will come in June, when I spend two months filming in the refugee camps in Kenya, with temperatures of up to 100F. I'm excited at the prospect of capturing pictures with substantially higher definition than DVCAM - normally I would have shot this kind of stuff on a PD170. I've just bought a video camera backpack - the FX1, Sennheiser and Century Optics wide angle fit nicely into it. I'll be a one-man production team shooting HD - it's almost too good to be true!

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 4th, 2005, 10:49 AM

Great Derek. Need somebody to hold the Senn? A two person team, even better than a one man team in order to get great sound to go along with those great images.

Bill Pryor · March 4th, 2005, 11:03 AM

I've recently watched (several times) Sony's promotional DVD for the Z1. All footage was shot HDV and edited HDV; then it was downconverted to SD for the DVD. It looks great. I was prepared to dislike the look, but I have to admit that I'm impressed.
I've heard from Avid (I'm in the U.S.) that they will have HDV capability by around June, about the same time FCP will have it. However, Avid's Mac version may be a bit behind that.

Mark Grant · March 4th, 2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

If this is so, what would be the point in upgrading to this camera?

Most obviously:

PD150/170 - fake 16:9 SD
FX1 - real 16:9 SD

From the comments made by an ex-BBC guy on another forum, that seemed to be the main reason for switching to the FX1, with the ability to shoot in HD a secondary concern.

AFAIR he said they have used an FX1 to shoot some behind-the-scenes shots at concerts to test out the HD abilities of the camera (while the main footage was shot with 'real' HD cams), but that's not the primary reason for switching to them from the PD150/170.

Sean M Lee · March 4th, 2005, 07:32 PM

I wonder if the mac version of AXP and FCP are waiting for the release of Tiger and MPEG 4 H.264?

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Pryor :
I've heard from Avid (I'm in the U.S.) that they will have HDV capability by around June, about the same time FCP will have it. However, Avid's Mac version may be a bit behind that. -->>>

Bill Pryor · March 4th, 2005, 08:00 PM

I just read this morning that Apple is going to have HDV in FCP by the summer too. They have it in their cheapo FC Express for $300 (U.S.). Odd they would do it that way...but I guess they can get the bugs worked out courtesy of the early adopters.

Sean M Lee · March 4th, 2005, 09:20 PM

I've heard rumors that they are working on a new intermediate codec for FCP.

David Cherniack · March 7th, 2005, 09:43 AM

Here's the link to the downconvert comparisons. The results are interesting.

http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sonyhdrfx1/cherniak1.php

The HDV material was pulled into Premiere Pro via Aspect HD2.51 at highest setting. A frame was selected, its waveform captured, and the frame was exported as an uncompressed tif.

The Z1 to DV downconvert was sent via firewire to a tape in a PD150 and then captured in Premiere Pro. The same frame was exported as an uncompressed tif.

Another downconvert was done from the AspectHD timeline transcoding via the BlackMagic 10bit YUV codec in the Procoder 2 plugin with the 709 to 601 color space conversion. The downconverted material was brought into a new Premiere Pro project, the waveform captured, and the frame exported.

It's apparent that the camera downconvert has a much narrower luminence range than the software downconvert which is a very close match to the original.

It's also interesting that the uncompressed tif of the AspectHD frame shows a very subtle ghosting of the black branches. This is not visible in the AspectHD material and must be introduced by PPro in the tif export.

Chris Hurd · March 7th, 2005, 10:47 AM

That link is now http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...cherniack1.php. Thanks,

Chris Jothi · March 7th, 2005, 08:18 PM

Does anyone know of any programmes that have been shot with the FX1/Z1E that are being broadcast soon in the UK?

I am down for on (damn things have sold out everywhere) and should be getting it at the end of the month. Studying TV Production at Bournemouth Uni (final year) and cannot wait to see what my images look like compared to my mates' PD150 and even the DSR-570!

I know the cameras have just come out and that it takes time to get things on air but if any news or antique show type programmes are being shot with these cameras please can someone give a heads up as I am sure all of us would love to see just how they look to the people it matters the most, the audience.

Steve Shovlar · March 8th, 2005, 03:28 AM

HI Chris, I am close to you and went to Bournmouth Uni myself ten years ago.

Drive past it every week and bring back some good memories!;)

Don't know of any show yet on TV where these cameras have been used.

I am making a documentary at Poole Speedway with the FX1, starting next week! I am following a group of speedway fans around the country following the Pirates. Should be fun.

Filip Kovcin · March 8th, 2005, 07:46 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Cherniack : Here's the link to the downconvert comparisons. The results are interesting. -->>>

very interesting, and rather clear when someone sees it on the waveform. nice work!

filip

David Cherniack · March 11th, 2005, 05:02 PM

Due to some questions on another board I glanced over my methodology and discovered that in copying the test clip to a new timeline I had inadvertantly copied an effect with it that skewed the luminance range. In fact the HDV frame and the software downconvert are very close to the camera downconvert in a waveform comparison.

It's a dumb error and I do apologize.

David

March 4th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#31
Derek Serra Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 76	You're right of course, David. At the end of the day it's the images we produce which will establish HDV or not. I'll be spending a week in Cuba later this month as part of a South African Arts & Culture delegation - amazing opportunities visually to test the FX1's abilities. The true test will come in June, when I spend two months filming in the refugee camps in Kenya, with temperatures of up to 100F. I'm excited at the prospect of capturing pictures with substantially higher definition than DVCAM - normally I would have shot this kind of stuff on a PD170. I've just bought a video camera backpack - the FX1, Sennheiser and Century Optics wide angle fit nicely into it. I'll be a one-man production team shooting HD - it's almost too good to be true! __________________ Derek Antonio Serra Indie Filmmaker www.indv.co.za

March 4th, 2005, 10:49 AM	#32
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Great Derek. Need somebody to hold the Senn? A two person team, even better than a one man team in order to get great sound to go along with those great images. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 7th, 2005, 09:43 AM	#38
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	HD Downconvert comparisons Here's the link to the downconvert comparisons. The results are interesting. http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sonyhdrfx1/cherniak1.php The HDV material was pulled into Premiere Pro via Aspect HD2.51 at highest setting. A frame was selected, its waveform captured, and the frame was exported as an uncompressed tif. The Z1 to DV downconvert was sent via firewire to a tape in a PD150 and then captured in Premiere Pro. The same frame was exported as an uncompressed tif. Another downconvert was done from the AspectHD timeline transcoding via the BlackMagic 10bit YUV codec in the Procoder 2 plugin with the 709 to 601 color space conversion. The downconverted material was brought into a new Premiere Pro project, the waveform captured, and the frame exported. It's apparent that the camera downconvert has a much narrower luminence range than the software downconvert which is a very close match to the original. It's also interesting that the uncompressed tif of the AspectHD frame shows a very subtle ghosting of the black branches. This is not visible in the AspectHD material and must be introduced by PPro in the tif export.

March 7th, 2005, 10:47 AM	#39
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That link is now http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...cherniack1.php. Thanks, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 7th, 2005, 08:18 PM	#40
Chris Jothi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 74	Any programmes we know of? Does anyone know of any programmes that have been shot with the FX1/Z1E that are being broadcast soon in the UK? I am down for on (damn things have sold out everywhere) and should be getting it at the end of the month. Studying TV Production at Bournemouth Uni (final year) and cannot wait to see what my images look like compared to my mates' PD150 and even the DSR-570! I know the cameras have just come out and that it takes time to get things on air but if any news or antique show type programmes are being shot with these cameras please can someone give a heads up as I am sure all of us would love to see just how they look to the people it matters the most, the audience.

March 4th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#33
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I've recently watched (several times) Sony's promotional DVD for the Z1. All footage was shot HDV and edited HDV; then it was downconverted to SD for the DVD. It looks great. I was prepared to dislike the look, but I have to admit that I'm impressed. I've heard from Avid (I'm in the U.S.) that they will have HDV capability by around June, about the same time FCP will have it. However, Avid's Mac version may be a bit behind that.

March 4th, 2005, 07:32 PM	#35
Sean M Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indy Posts: 160	I wonder if the mac version of AXP and FCP are waiting for the release of Tiger and MPEG 4 H.264? <<<-- Originally posted by Bill Pryor : I've heard from Avid (I'm in the U.S.) that they will have HDV capability by around June, about the same time FCP will have it. However, Avid's Mac version may be a bit behind that. -->>>

March 4th, 2005, 08:00 PM	#36
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I just read this morning that Apple is going to have HDV in FCP by the summer too. They have it in their cheapo FC Express for $300 (U.S.). Odd they would do it that way...but I guess they can get the bugs worked out courtesy of the early adopters.

March 4th, 2005, 09:20 PM	#37
Sean M Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indy Posts: 160	I've heard rumors that they are working on a new intermediate codec for FCP.

March 8th, 2005, 03:28 AM	#41
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	HI Chris, I am close to you and went to Bournmouth Uni myself ten years ago. Drive past it every week and bring back some good memories!;) Don't know of any show yet on TV where these cameras have been used. I am making a documentary at Poole Speedway with the FX1, starting next week! I am following a group of speedway fans around the country following the Pirates. Should be fun.

March 8th, 2005, 07:46 AM	#42
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	Re: HD Downconvert comparisons <<<-- Originally posted by David Cherniack : Here's the link to the downconvert comparisons. The results are interesting. -->>> very interesting, and rather clear when someone sees it on the waveform. nice work! filip __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

March 11th, 2005, 05:02 PM	#43
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	Whoa! Due to some questions on another board I glanced over my methodology and discovered that in copying the test clip to a new timeline I had inadvertantly copied an effect with it that skewed the luminance range. In fact the HDV frame and the software downconvert are very close to the camera downconvert in a waveform comparison. It's a dumb error and I do apologize. David