FX1 & Z1U in Low Light

Andrew M. Lawrence · February 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM

I tried out the Z1 at a tech exhibition last week and tested it specifically for low light levels. I put it on full zoom and aimed at the darkest corner of the exhibition hall (no lights shining at it directly and little indirect light) and was surprised to see that, at least on the LCD, the image looked pretty good. I did not have the opportunity to view footage on a monitor.

Johnny Friday · February 1st, 2005, 07:25 PM

That's the best news I've heard all week now. I was wondering if what i was hearing in bad low light reviews was actually the view on the monitor vs. what was on tape.....So again that remains to be known.

Greg Boston · February 1st, 2005, 08:03 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Johnny Friday : I'll be trying that out preety soon when my camera returns....I'm not keen on the resulds of turning up the gain however. HOwever....I'll soon see and post those results.
thanks -->>>

I've heard similar statements about the new Sonys and the XL-2 with respect to adding gain. It is becoming less of a taboo on newer cam designs. People are reporting noise free video at 6db gain and surprisingly good video as high as 12db.

I'd love to show you the night footage taken in Vienna, Austria when the XL-2 was introduced. It was after seeing that footage that I was sold. It was originally linked from over at the DVXUSER forum as they were very keen on how the XL-2 would stack up against the DVX-100. You might see if you can find it there. I have it copied to my hard drive but it's too large to email. I could FTP it to you if you have or know of a server.

regards,

=gb=

Steven Gotz · February 1st, 2005, 08:33 PM

Drop by http://www.yousendit.com

Put in that you want to email it to yourself. They will then send you a link you can post here. It allows up to 1GB, and has a limited number of downloads. I do not know the number, but I heard 25.

So go there and give it a shot.

Johnny Friday · February 1st, 2005, 08:47 PM

would love to check the link to it....if possible.

Steven Gotz · February 1st, 2005, 09:02 PM

Just as an example, I posted a short (48598 KB) M2T file here:

http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=36ODQJAOR55GF0GWLWDEL70XPP

Please ignore the audio. This is directly off of the FX1 and I often talk to myself to leave notes when I know I will be deleting the audio anyway. I know how I edit, and I know that this will be part of a show with Hawaiian music and new age stuff, not much ambient sound.

I don't know how many downloads I have left, so if it expires, don't be surprised. Also, they are only good for seven days.

Johnny Friday · February 1st, 2005, 09:06 PM

Steven,
Just tried the link and says it's expired...any chance that there's an error?

Steven Gotz · February 1st, 2005, 11:01 PM

No error, just too many downloads. Here is a renamed version. First come, first served.

http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3R...1039L0E263ITY1

To see a small version of the download, look here:

http://www.premiereuser.com/videos/Kilauea_Coast.wmv

Bobby Arnold · February 18th, 2005, 02:14 AM

Johnny, any chance of seeing that Z1 U/W footage, assuming you are allowing yourself at least a couple hours of surface intervals these days? I very interested to see the differences between the Sony and JVC HDV cams for shooting underwater footage.

I've uploaded some footage from my first caribbean trip with my HD10U for anyone interested, at least until the max # of downloads has been met ->
http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...716B22PGFTCDUN

Thanks in advance!

ScubaBob

Johnny Friday · February 18th, 2005, 08:08 AM

Hi Bob,
As soon as i have my housing in hand....I'll do just that. Have the Cameras now...both the FX1 and Z1, but the housing is not yet complete. Should have it in about one to two more weeks....at which time I'll post some footage from underwater shots...

Johan Manders · February 18th, 2005, 08:29 AM

Hey Bobby,
One question...What is the resolution of the file you posted?
I can play it with Media Player and it look great!
Thanks for the movie!

Bobby Arnold · February 18th, 2005, 10:35 AM

Johan- 1280x720p, taken with the HD10U using the Gates HD1 Housing.

Johnny - thanks for the update, looking forward to it! (as I'm sure you are too).

Tom Hardwick · February 18th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Too often low light performance of cameras is ignored. And many forget about the lens ramping implications. But a word of caution. I've recently seen posted a comparison of a PD150 with a DSR500 in low light, with findings that initially (using the PD150 side screen) suggested them to be evenly matched - they both seemed to just manage to expose the "test scene" at full gain. But later looking at the results on a proper monitor showed that the PD150 had only managed it by considerable degradation and softening of the image - I suspect it may have averaged neighbouring pixels, or some such. Hence I don't think it can simply be said "camera x needs this much light, and camera y this much", without considerable qualification.

Hence my suggestion of a controlled test scene for different cameras, and the ability to post sample frames along the lines of "this is the quality you get from camera x at light level y". Two cameras may give similar quality in good light, but in poor light one may either not give full exposure, or look substantially worse. Or both.

tom.

Steven Gotz · February 18th, 2005, 03:30 PM

I liked the video. I would love to have a copy in WM9 format at around an 8Mbps data rate. It would look great on my HDTV I'll bet.

Bobby Arnold · February 18th, 2005, 05:20 PM

You know, I haven't actually been that impressed with WMV9 for my U/W stuff. I will post one this weekend though at 8Mbps. For showing on my HTPC->HDTV (720p) I've been using transport stream. It may take some tweaking to get the WMV encode right, that I just haven't figured out yet. The main issue has been with the blue water in the background. Anyway, I will post one to this thread for comparison.

February 1st, 2005, 07:25 PM	#17
Johnny Friday New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: La Paz, Baja, Ca. Sur, Mexico & San Diego Posts: 10	That's the best news I've heard all week now. I was wondering if what i was hearing in bad low light reviews was actually the view on the monitor vs. what was on tape.....So again that remains to be known. __________________ JOhnny Friday Baja Ecotours & Baja Productions http://bajaproductions.com http://bajaecotours.com

February 1st, 2005, 08:33 PM	#19
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Drop by http://www.yousendit.com Put in that you want to email it to yourself. They will then send you a link you can post here. It allows up to 1GB, and has a limited number of downloads. I do not know the number, but I heard 25. So go there and give it a shot. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

February 1st, 2005, 08:47 PM	#20
Johnny Friday New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: La Paz, Baja, Ca. Sur, Mexico & San Diego Posts: 10	would love to check the link to it....if possible. __________________ JOhnny Friday Baja Ecotours & Baja Productions http://bajaproductions.com http://bajaecotours.com

February 1st, 2005, 09:06 PM	#22
Johnny Friday New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: La Paz, Baja, Ca. Sur, Mexico & San Diego Posts: 10	Steven, Just tried the link and says it's expired...any chance that there's an error? __________________ JOhnny Friday Baja Ecotours & Baja Productions http://bajaproductions.com http://bajaecotours.com

February 1st, 2005, 11:01 PM	#23
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	No error, just too many downloads. Here is a renamed version. First come, first served. http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3R...1039L0E263ITY1 To see a small version of the download, look here: http://www.premiereuser.com/videos/Kilauea_Coast.wmv __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

February 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM	#16
Andrew M. Lawrence Tourist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ipswich, UK Posts: 3	I tried out the Z1 at a tech exhibition last week and tested it specifically for low light levels. I put it on full zoom and aimed at the darkest corner of the exhibition hall (no lights shining at it directly and little indirect light) and was surprised to see that, at least on the LCD, the image looked pretty good. I did not have the opportunity to view footage on a monitor.

February 1st, 2005, 08:03 PM	#18
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	<<<-- Originally posted by Johnny Friday : I'll be trying that out preety soon when my camera returns....I'm not keen on the resulds of turning up the gain however. HOwever....I'll soon see and post those results. thanks -->>> I've heard similar statements about the new Sonys and the XL-2 with respect to adding gain. It is becoming less of a taboo on newer cam designs. People are reporting noise free video at 6db gain and surprisingly good video as high as 12db. I'd love to show you the night footage taken in Vienna, Austria when the XL-2 was introduced. It was after seeing that footage that I was sold. It was originally linked from over at the DVXUSER forum as they were very keen on how the XL-2 would stack up against the DVX-100. You might see if you can find it there. I have it copied to my hard drive but it's too large to email. I could FTP it to you if you have or know of a server. regards, =gb=

February 1st, 2005, 09:02 PM	#21
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Just as an example, I posted a short (48598 KB) M2T file here: http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=36ODQJAOR55GF0GWLWDEL70XPP Please ignore the audio. This is directly off of the FX1 and I often talk to myself to leave notes when I know I will be deleting the audio anyway. I know how I edit, and I know that this will be part of a show with Hawaiian music and new age stuff, not much ambient sound. I don't know how many downloads I have left, so if it expires, don't be surprised. Also, they are only good for seven days.

February 18th, 2005, 02:14 AM	#24
Bobby Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Laguna Beach, California Posts: 52	Johnny, any chance of seeing that Z1 U/W footage, assuming you are allowing yourself at least a couple hours of surface intervals these days? I very interested to see the differences between the Sony and JVC HDV cams for shooting underwater footage. I've uploaded some footage from my first caribbean trip with my HD10U for anyone interested, at least until the max # of downloads has been met -> http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...716B22PGFTCDUN Thanks in advance! ScubaBob

February 18th, 2005, 08:08 AM	#25
Johnny Friday New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: La Paz, Baja, Ca. Sur, Mexico & San Diego Posts: 10	Hi Bob, As soon as i have my housing in hand....I'll do just that. Have the Cameras now...both the FX1 and Z1, but the housing is not yet complete. Should have it in about one to two more weeks....at which time I'll post some footage from underwater shots... __________________ JOhnny Friday Baja Ecotours & Baja Productions http://bajaproductions.com http://bajaecotours.com

February 18th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#26
Johan Manders Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 50	Hey Bobby, One question...What is the resolution of the file you posted? I can play it with Media Player and it look great! Thanks for the movie!

February 18th, 2005, 10:35 AM	#27
Bobby Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Laguna Beach, California Posts: 52	Johan- 1280x720p, taken with the HD10U using the Gates HD1 Housing. Johnny - thanks for the update, looking forward to it! (as I'm sure you are too).

February 18th, 2005, 03:24 PM	#28
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Too often low light performance of cameras is ignored. And many forget about the lens ramping implications. But a word of caution. I've recently seen posted a comparison of a PD150 with a DSR500 in low light, with findings that initially (using the PD150 side screen) suggested them to be evenly matched - they both seemed to just manage to expose the "test scene" at full gain. But later looking at the results on a proper monitor showed that the PD150 had only managed it by considerable degradation and softening of the image - I suspect it may have averaged neighbouring pixels, or some such. Hence I don't think it can simply be said "camera x needs this much light, and camera y this much", without considerable qualification. Hence my suggestion of a controlled test scene for different cameras, and the ability to post sample frames along the lines of "this is the quality you get from camera x at light level y". Two cameras may give similar quality in good light, but in poor light one may either not give full exposure, or look substantially worse. Or both. tom.

February 18th, 2005, 03:30 PM	#29
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	I liked the video. I would love to have a copy in WM9 format at around an 8Mbps data rate. It would look great on my HDTV I'll bet. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

February 18th, 2005, 05:20 PM	#30
Bobby Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Laguna Beach, California Posts: 52	You know, I haven't actually been that impressed with WMV9 for my U/W stuff. I will post one this weekend though at 8Mbps. For showing on my HTPC->HDTV (720p) I've been using transport stream. It may take some tweaking to get the WMV encode right, that I just haven't figured out yet. The main issue has been with the blue water in the background. Anyway, I will post one to this thread for comparison.