Z1 info

Bob Zimmerman · January 21st, 2005, 12:28 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : The only thing that prevents me from buying a Z1 is that supposedly when you make DVD's of the footage it doesn't look so hot, because of compression upon compression...

Guess I could buy one to experiment... -->>>

Since no one has a Z1 yet how would anyone know?

Steven Gotz · January 21st, 2005, 12:29 PM

"a drop in the tape means the whole GOP is dropped. And that's BAD."

That's correct. One single bad frame and you lose a bunch of them. It is horrible. Just awful. Looks really bad.

In the 5 hours of tape I have captured so far, it happened once.

Once.

I use the expensive, but recommended, tapes. No dropouts, no problems, and nobody can argue that I voided my warranty.

Chris Hurd · January 21st, 2005, 01:11 PM

Once the various direct-to-disk options such as FireStore, etc. start to support HDV, you won't need to have a tape in the camera anyway.

Ignacio Rodriguez · January 21st, 2005, 01:14 PM

Steven, so you got one dropped GOP in five hours... at SP tape speed. That's about 1/1080000, not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed.

I don't think using other tapes would void the warranty... am I wrong? That would be the first time I have known of such a thing with tape.

Steven Gotz · January 21st, 2005, 03:07 PM

When I bought the FX1, I bought 10 tapes. I didn't know what I could and could not get away with. If that is what Sony recommended, that is what I was going to buy. I was upgrading from a Canon ZR10 to a Sony HDR-FX1 without stopping along the way to buy a TRV-950 (for example). So I was going to pretty much trust Sony and do what they suggested. I don't have the deep background like many people do, so I just played along.

After having so little problem with these tapes, I will stick with them.

Besides, once you use one type of tape, the lubrication used makes a difference if you change. So I will stick with it. I suppose if I had the heads cleaned, which I believe is part of the Mack warranty once a year, that would be a good time to switch. But I doubt I will switch unless something even better comes along.

Boyd Ostroff · January 21st, 2005, 03:52 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez : not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed. -->>>

Does the Z1 record HDV using DVCAM speed? I always assumed that DVCAM was an option you could only use when the camera was in SD mode.

Toke Lahti · January 21st, 2005, 03:58 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez: That's about 1/1080000, not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed. -->>>

Does z1 really roll the tape in hdv mode with dvcam speed?
Or can you perhaps choose the speed?

Christopher C. Murphy · January 21st, 2005, 04:03 PM

Does anyone know if my PD-150 tapes (DVCAM and standard) will play my forthcoming Z1??

Thanks!

Barry Green · January 21st, 2005, 05:20 PM

Yes the Z1 will play back miniDV and mini-DVCAM tapes.

Jasenn Robertson · January 21st, 2005, 10:33 PM

Does z1 really roll the tape in hdv mode with dvcam speed?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've read, the Z1 will record(on a 60 min. mini-dv tape) 60 minutes in DV mode, 40 minutes in DVCAM mode, and 60 minutes in HDV. So it appears there's no speeding up the tape for HDV, and it will record in the normal DV bandwidth of 25MB/s.

By the way, Hi to everybody, I just found out about the Z1 after upgrading to Avid Xpress Pro HD last weekend and importing some HDV footage. This board has been a great resource in finding out the nitty-gritty on HDV and Sony's response to JVC.

Christopher C. Murphy · January 22nd, 2005, 07:28 AM

Thanks Barry!

Zack Birlew · January 22nd, 2005, 09:23 AM

I'm sorry, but I've never owned a Sony Mini-DV camera (I do have an old Video 8 camera and the first Betamax Camera [which still works and could look great with some major heavy duty lighting]) so I don't know the difference between DVCAM and Mini-DV. I know the DVCAMs can record a lot more than Mini-DV, but what does this do for HDV that Mini-DV doesn't? Are there NO dropouts with DVCAM? Or, is there like a 70% reduction in possible dropout occurence?

Boyd Ostroff · January 22nd, 2005, 09:33 AM

You're thinking of the larger form factor DVCAM cassettes which none of these prosumer cameras use. When recording DVCAM on a miniDV cassette you only 40 minutes due to the faster tape speed. I don't know that there is any hard data on dropout reduction, but the faster tape speed should help. The binary data is the same as regular DV so there is no inherent quality improvement. Do a search on DVCAM and you will find a lot of discussion, mostly in the PD-170 forum.

Zack Birlew · January 22nd, 2005, 10:03 AM

Eh.... no thanks. I don't like deep sea message board searching ^_^. What you've said is enough, that's all I needed to know, thanks!

I'm sorry, but recently I saw some really bad footage taken with the FX1, so I think I'll wait for Panasonic (even if it is a 16:9 DVX100, I am on a GL1 after all so anything would be an upgrade).

Chris Hurd · January 22nd, 2005, 10:17 AM

<< recently I saw some really bad footage taken with the FX1 >>

Gee whiz. I've seen really bad footage from just about every camcorder ever made. Most often it's operator error -- the camera doesn't have that much to do with how bad it is.

January 21st, 2005, 01:11 PM	#18
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Once the various direct-to-disk options such as FireStore, etc. start to support HDV, you won't need to have a tape in the camera anyway. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 21st, 2005, 01:14 PM	#19
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Steven, so you got one dropped GOP in five hours... at SP tape speed. That's about 1/1080000, not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed. I don't think using other tapes would void the warranty... am I wrong? That would be the first time I have known of such a thing with tape. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

January 21st, 2005, 04:03 PM	#23
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Does anyone know if my PD-150 tapes (DVCAM and standard) will play my forthcoming Z1?? Thanks! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 21st, 2005, 10:33 PM	#25
Jasenn Robertson New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 19	Does z1 really roll the tape in hdv mode with dvcam speed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From what I've read, the Z1 will record(on a 60 min. mini-dv tape) 60 minutes in DV mode, 40 minutes in DVCAM mode, and 60 minutes in HDV. So it appears there's no speeding up the tape for HDV, and it will record in the normal DV bandwidth of 25MB/s. By the way, Hi to everybody, I just found out about the Z1 after upgrading to Avid Xpress Pro HD last weekend and importing some HDV footage. This board has been a great resource in finding out the nitty-gritty on HDV and Sony's response to JVC. __________________ Jasenn Robertson, Editor Alexandria, VA

January 22nd, 2005, 07:28 AM	#26
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Thanks Barry! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 21st, 2005, 12:28 PM	#16
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : The only thing that prevents me from buying a Z1 is that supposedly when you make DVD's of the footage it doesn't look so hot, because of compression upon compression... Guess I could buy one to experiment... -->>> Since no one has a Z1 yet how would anyone know?

January 21st, 2005, 12:29 PM	#17
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	"a drop in the tape means the whole GOP is dropped. And that's BAD." That's correct. One single bad frame and you lose a bunch of them. It is horrible. Just awful. Looks really bad. In the 5 hours of tape I have captured so far, it happened once. Once. I use the expensive, but recommended, tapes. No dropouts, no problems, and nobody can argue that I voided my warranty.

January 21st, 2005, 03:07 PM	#20
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	When I bought the FX1, I bought 10 tapes. I didn't know what I could and could not get away with. If that is what Sony recommended, that is what I was going to buy. I was upgrading from a Canon ZR10 to a Sony HDR-FX1 without stopping along the way to buy a TRV-950 (for example). So I was going to pretty much trust Sony and do what they suggested. I don't have the deep background like many people do, so I just played along. After having so little problem with these tapes, I will stick with them. Besides, once you use one type of tape, the lubrication used makes a difference if you change. So I will stick with it. I suppose if I had the heads cleaned, which I believe is part of the Mack warranty once a year, that would be a good time to switch. But I doubt I will switch unless something even better comes along.

January 21st, 2005, 03:52 PM	#21
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,790	<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez : not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed. -->>> Does the Z1 record HDV using DVCAM speed? I always assumed that DVCAM was an option you could only use when the camera was in SD mode.

January 21st, 2005, 03:58 PM	#22
Toke Lahti Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 158	<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez: That's about 1/1080000, not bad at all, and should get better at DVCAM speed. -->>> Does z1 really roll the tape in hdv mode with dvcam speed? Or can you perhaps choose the speed?

January 21st, 2005, 05:20 PM	#24
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yes the Z1 will play back miniDV and mini-DVCAM tapes.

January 22nd, 2005, 09:23 AM	#27
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	I'm sorry, but I've never owned a Sony Mini-DV camera (I do have an old Video 8 camera and the first Betamax Camera [which still works and could look great with some major heavy duty lighting]) so I don't know the difference between DVCAM and Mini-DV. I know the DVCAMs can record a lot more than Mini-DV, but what does this do for HDV that Mini-DV doesn't? Are there NO dropouts with DVCAM? Or, is there like a 70% reduction in possible dropout occurence? __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 22nd, 2005, 09:33 AM	#28
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,790	You're thinking of the larger form factor DVCAM cassettes which none of these prosumer cameras use. When recording DVCAM on a miniDV cassette you only 40 minutes due to the faster tape speed. I don't know that there is any hard data on dropout reduction, but the faster tape speed should help. The binary data is the same as regular DV so there is no inherent quality improvement. Do a search on DVCAM and you will find a lot of discussion, mostly in the PD-170 forum.

January 22nd, 2005, 10:03 AM	#29
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Eh.... no thanks. I don't like deep sea message board searching ^_^. What you've said is enough, that's all I needed to know, thanks! I'm sorry, but recently I saw some really bad footage taken with the FX1, so I think I'll wait for Panasonic (even if it is a 16:9 DVX100, I am on a GL1 after all so anything would be an upgrade). __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 22nd, 2005, 10:17 AM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< recently I saw some really bad footage taken with the FX1 >> Gee whiz. I've seen really bad footage from just about every camcorder ever made. Most often it's operator error -- the camera doesn't have that much to do with how bad it is. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!