SONY HDV cameras have Audio issue? at DVinfo.net

Dave Campbell · January 8th, 2005, 01:50 PM

Anyone know more about this?

http://www.global-dvc.org/Sony%20HDV...io%20tests.htm

Dave

Rhett Allen · January 8th, 2005, 02:23 PM

It doesn't surprise me. Do you ever remember Sony releasing a new camera that didn't have audio problems? Now the question is, since this is not a "PRO" camera (like the Z1 is supposed to be) are they going to fix any audio problems?
That is exactly why I wouldn't be so quick to jump on this band wagon. I only hope they decide to get rid of that stupid built in microphone on the Z1, what a waste.

Ron Evans · January 9th, 2005, 10:36 AM

Gentleman. This group of people have designed an addon box like the Beachtek that depends on the dc out of the Sony camera for power. It just so happens that the FX1 doesn't provide the same power output as the other Sony's. So------ That isn't a Sony problem is it ?? No, it means the design of their box doesn't work. I have a Sony FX1 and it works just fine. Mic input with DC blocking works and so does line in from my mixer.

Ron Evans

Dave Campbell · January 9th, 2005, 10:43 AM

The issue is their spec says one thing, and the product does not meet their spec.

Guess I am not buying anything until the product meets their spec.

Dave

Ron Evans · January 9th, 2005, 10:07 PM

That 's your choice Dave. But do you know that they measured it correctly? Did you measure it? There are a lot of people trying desperately to find something wrong with the FX1. Most have never seen one. In desperation they are comparing it to cameras costing more than ten times as much. That really is grasping at straws. The FX1 is a great camera for what it is intended at a very reasonable price. It is a high end consumer camera and should be compared to cameras costing about the same. There just aren't any that compete at this price!!!! I am sure that in the coming year we will see some competition.

Ron Evans

Dave Campbell · January 9th, 2005, 10:37 PM

The posting stated this.
"Sony Japan confirmed Sony Holland wrong specifications for DCout on FX1 and probably also for Z1."

Are you saying this is wrong? I just about got the vx1000 with the audio issue. I just about got the vx2000 with the audio issue.
So, you can see I am sold on Sony. But, I want to also be able to say I just about got the audio issue on I hope the Z1 if the price is 5K.

Dave

Ron Evans · January 10th, 2005, 09:07 AM

Dave I have no idea whether it is wrong or not. I just checked my manual and it also states the same 2.5 to 3.0v into 6.8kilohms just like the rest of my Sony cameras. It is however a DC voltage supply rather than any audio problem. It is mainly intended to supply voltage to Sony's condenser mics. The FX1 uses a lot of power and I am sure the Sony engineers cut back every power use possible as long as all their equipment worked!!! The technical writers probably just copied the specs from the current cameras without checking!!! As I said earlier mine works just fine with both mic and line input.

Ron Evans

Dave Campbell · January 10th, 2005, 10:09 AM

So do you believe Sony designed a product what will not work with some of their mics? If all the cameras have the same spec, are you saying they no longer supporting this?

Again, all I am saying is the spec says one thing, and the product does not meet it. No matter what this is, are you saying this is okay to ignore? This would not be the quality I expect from Sony, which is why I purchase their products.

So, until Sony says something official, we have a product which does not meet one of their published spec. I do not see how this can not be an issue. It may not impact all, but, impacting any I think for the price of these cameras must be fixed.

Dave

Boyd Ostroff · January 10th, 2005, 10:44 AM

Well if this is a real issue then there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. But I really think it says more about being an early adopter of a new camera design than anything else. The first people who buy a camera are destined to find some quirks. This benefits those who purchase later; even if the problems aren't fixed at least they are documented so we can find work-arounds and make informed purchasing decisions.

Ron Evans · January 10th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Dave I just measured my FX1 and confirmed that the output is about 2v. My meters are not that accurate and I have no idea what impedence is used. One said 1.96v the other 2.0v. I only have access to one Sony mic and it works fine. I expect that all the Sony mics will work since the electret only needs a small voltage, the performance, dynamic range may be affected marginally. My TRV50 mic dc output ( which is also spec'd at 2.5 to 3v is in fact 2.14v and again 2v measured with the same two meters. My only concern at the moment is that these are spec'd with 6.8kohm impedance and I do not have the neccessary equipment to provide this precise load to the connector across which to measure the voltage. I expect that the FX1 output may be no different to the existing batch of Sony's . All voltages may be load dependent so unless the correct load is applied the measurement will not be accurate. For me this voltage issue is irrelevant and for anyone designing equipment to work with the FX1 will indeed to check this out to ensure compliance just as these group of people are doing.

Ron Evans

Dave Campbell · January 10th, 2005, 06:23 PM

Thanks Ron. Still am looking forward to Sony answering this question. But, in the past when folks found the audio issues, I do not ever remember Sony admitting to it, at least on the vx1000. They just quietly changed the serial numbers.

Again, the person in the link has proven his stuff does not work, so again, am glad the Z1 is not out yet since it allows me to have others do what, if any, debugging has to be done. :o)

Dave

Carlos E. Martinez · January 12th, 2005, 05:35 AM

Folks,

Please forget Sony's or any other video camera mic phantom voltage and use a proper preamp/mixer to go into it. At least that way you will be feeding an externally controllable signal into the usually mediocre camera preamps.

Even more: if you want quality audio, particularly if you do dialogue or music, implement double-system sound.

The audio end in any of these cameras was designed for news, not for serious sound quality. Even those costing tens of thousands.

IMO this discussion seems pointless. There was only one external preamp, the Glensound GSTN-1, that did proper use of voltage available on some Sony cameras as power. But they also demanded that you modified your DV camera (BBC did it). Forget about the phantom power available at the mic input: no quality mic will feed from it.

Carlos

Steven Fokkinga · January 12th, 2005, 06:56 AM

Hey Carlos,

Do you think a Beachtek DXA-8 would do the trick?
Also, there is the problem with the FX1 that the audio is compressed. But I guess for dialogue it would suffice, and you won't have to go through the pain of syncing everything.

Steven

Dave Campbell · January 12th, 2005, 07:57 AM

Carlos, the issue is no longer about the audio, but about sony having a spec on the camera that someone states is not being met. Is there any other specs they have that they do not meet that someone has not found yet?

Why do so many seem to be willing to say it is okay for sony to publish a spec, and looks like they may not meet it. Again, whether it is a audio issue, or what ever, its the point they are not selling what one has purchased by what they have written.

Dave

Would it be okay to buy a car that was "speced" to go 80 mph, and only go 65?

Boyd Ostroff · January 12th, 2005, 08:30 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Campbell :Would it be okay to buy a car that was "speced" to go 80 mph, and only go 65? -->>>

I think a more appropriate analogy would be buying a car with a cup holder that was spec'ed at 3" diameter but actually measured 2.75". It isn't going to make a lot of difference unless you have an expensive 3" coffee cup.

I suspect that others feel as I do, that we're beating a dead horse here...

January 8th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#1
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	SONY HDV cameras have Audio issue? Anyone know more about this? http://www.global-dvc.org/Sony%20HDV...io%20tests.htm Dave

January 8th, 2005, 02:23 PM	#2
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	It doesn't surprise me. Do you ever remember Sony releasing a new camera that didn't have audio problems? Now the question is, since this is not a "PRO" camera (like the Z1 is supposed to be) are they going to fix any audio problems? That is exactly why I wouldn't be so quick to jump on this band wagon. I only hope they decide to get rid of that stupid built in microphone on the Z1, what a waste.

January 9th, 2005, 10:36 AM	#3
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Gentleman. This group of people have designed an addon box like the Beachtek that depends on the dc out of the Sony camera for power. It just so happens that the FX1 doesn't provide the same power output as the other Sony's. So------ That isn't a Sony problem is it ?? No, it means the design of their box doesn't work. I have a Sony FX1 and it works just fine. Mic input with DC blocking works and so does line in from my mixer. Ron Evans

January 9th, 2005, 10:43 AM	#4
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	The issue is their spec says one thing, and the product does not meet their spec. Guess I am not buying anything until the product meets their spec. Dave

January 9th, 2005, 10:07 PM	#5
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	That 's your choice Dave. But do you know that they measured it correctly? Did you measure it? There are a lot of people trying desperately to find something wrong with the FX1. Most have never seen one. In desperation they are comparing it to cameras costing more than ten times as much. That really is grasping at straws. The FX1 is a great camera for what it is intended at a very reasonable price. It is a high end consumer camera and should be compared to cameras costing about the same. There just aren't any that compete at this price!!!! I am sure that in the coming year we will see some competition. Ron Evans

January 9th, 2005, 10:37 PM	#6
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	The posting stated this. "Sony Japan confirmed Sony Holland wrong specifications for DCout on FX1 and probably also for Z1." Are you saying this is wrong? I just about got the vx1000 with the audio issue. I just about got the vx2000 with the audio issue. So, you can see I am sold on Sony. But, I want to also be able to say I just about got the audio issue on I hope the Z1 if the price is 5K. Dave

January 10th, 2005, 09:07 AM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Dave I have no idea whether it is wrong or not. I just checked my manual and it also states the same 2.5 to 3.0v into 6.8kilohms just like the rest of my Sony cameras. It is however a DC voltage supply rather than any audio problem. It is mainly intended to supply voltage to Sony's condenser mics. The FX1 uses a lot of power and I am sure the Sony engineers cut back every power use possible as long as all their equipment worked!!! The technical writers probably just copied the specs from the current cameras without checking!!! As I said earlier mine works just fine with both mic and line input. Ron Evans

January 10th, 2005, 10:09 AM	#8
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	So do you believe Sony designed a product what will not work with some of their mics? If all the cameras have the same spec, are you saying they no longer supporting this? Again, all I am saying is the spec says one thing, and the product does not meet it. No matter what this is, are you saying this is okay to ignore? This would not be the quality I expect from Sony, which is why I purchase their products. So, until Sony says something official, we have a product which does not meet one of their published spec. I do not see how this can not be an issue. It may not impact all, but, impacting any I think for the price of these cameras must be fixed. Dave

January 10th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#9
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Well if this is a real issue then there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. But I really think it says more about being an early adopter of a new camera design than anything else. The first people who buy a camera are destined to find some quirks. This benefits those who purchase later; even if the problems aren't fixed at least they are documented so we can find work-arounds and make informed purchasing decisions.

January 10th, 2005, 04:56 PM	#10
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Dave I just measured my FX1 and confirmed that the output is about 2v. My meters are not that accurate and I have no idea what impedence is used. One said 1.96v the other 2.0v. I only have access to one Sony mic and it works fine. I expect that all the Sony mics will work since the electret only needs a small voltage, the performance, dynamic range may be affected marginally. My TRV50 mic dc output ( which is also spec'd at 2.5 to 3v is in fact 2.14v and again 2v measured with the same two meters. My only concern at the moment is that these are spec'd with 6.8kohm impedance and I do not have the neccessary equipment to provide this precise load to the connector across which to measure the voltage. I expect that the FX1 output may be no different to the existing batch of Sony's . All voltages may be load dependent so unless the correct load is applied the measurement will not be accurate. For me this voltage issue is irrelevant and for anyone designing equipment to work with the FX1 will indeed to check this out to ensure compliance just as these group of people are doing. Ron Evans

January 10th, 2005, 06:23 PM	#11
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Thanks Ron. Still am looking forward to Sony answering this question. But, in the past when folks found the audio issues, I do not ever remember Sony admitting to it, at least on the vx1000. They just quietly changed the serial numbers. Again, the person in the link has proven his stuff does not work, so again, am glad the Z1 is not out yet since it allows me to have others do what, if any, debugging has to be done. :o) Dave

January 12th, 2005, 05:35 AM	#12
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Folks, Please forget Sony's or any other video camera mic phantom voltage and use a proper preamp/mixer to go into it. At least that way you will be feeding an externally controllable signal into the usually mediocre camera preamps. Even more: if you want quality audio, particularly if you do dialogue or music, implement double-system sound. The audio end in any of these cameras was designed for news, not for serious sound quality. Even those costing tens of thousands. IMO this discussion seems pointless. There was only one external preamp, the Glensound GSTN-1, that did proper use of voltage available on some Sony cameras as power. But they also demanded that you modified your DV camera (BBC did it). Forget about the phantom power available at the mic input: no quality mic will feed from it. Carlos

January 12th, 2005, 06:56 AM	#13
Steven Fokkinga Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 204	Hey Carlos, Do you think a Beachtek DXA-8 would do the trick? Also, there is the problem with the FX1 that the audio is compressed. But I guess for dialogue it would suffice, and you won't have to go through the pain of syncing everything. Steven

January 12th, 2005, 07:57 AM	#14
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Carlos, the issue is no longer about the audio, but about sony having a spec on the camera that someone states is not being met. Is there any other specs they have that they do not meet that someone has not found yet? Why do so many seem to be willing to say it is okay for sony to publish a spec, and looks like they may not meet it. Again, whether it is a audio issue, or what ever, its the point they are not selling what one has purchased by what they have written. Dave Would it be okay to buy a car that was "speced" to go 80 mph, and only go 65?

January 12th, 2005, 08:30 AM	#15
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Campbell :Would it be okay to buy a car that was "speced" to go 80 mph, and only go 65? -->>> I think a more appropriate analogy would be buying a car with a cup holder that was spec'ed at 3" diameter but actually measured 2.75". It isn't going to make a lot of difference unless you have an expensive 3" coffee cup. I suspect that others feel as I do, that we're beating a dead horse here...