Capturing FX1 video signal with its analog component out to 8-bit uncompressed HD at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · January 7th, 2005, 06:20 AM

Here is the details.
http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...055/index.html

Please do not make direct link to the files in the ftp. If I see this happening, I will have to stop serving the files. It is okay to provide the link above.

I will update that post later to provide you the comparison from digitally up-converted files.

Anhar Miah · January 7th, 2005, 08:28 AM

Kaku, i do not understand why the benifit of the 1st method?

Beacuse if it is playing from the tape, then you already have mpeg2 compression, i thought the point of this method was to try and bypass mpeg2 compression or have i missed the point?

Anyway great work Kaku!

P.S is there anyway that the same setup could be achieved from a laptop (thus avoiding having a computer setup in the field?)

Kaku Ito · January 7th, 2005, 08:33 AM

1st. method is experimented because software companies are still under development of capturing and converting HDV files at this point.

Especially, QuickTime seems to have more problems handling mpeg2.

I should also post the same footage converted from m2t format to compare. I will do that over the weekend.

And for now, as far as I know, there is no solution on laptop to do uncompressed HD right now. Does anyone know? I know where you are coming from, it would be great to be able to take this outside.

Toke Lahti · January 7th, 2005, 09:35 AM

Somebody should start to manufacture a brick that has analog hd component input and fw800 output and embedded cineform's visually losless or sheervideo's math losless compression!

Jim Arthurs · January 7th, 2005, 10:59 AM

Okay, pulled the footage down and brought it into After Effects and did MAJOR level hauls on the image, checking into all three color channels, looking for indication of MPEG artifacts, which I can find quite easily on any other .m2t footage.

There aren't any. This is without the slightest doubt BEFORE compresson. Thanks Kaku, one major rumor laid to rest!

BTW, for those having trouble looking at the footage;

download, un-zip. Rename the file with .mov extention.
Go to BlackMagic-Design website and download the appropriate win or mac codec. Place the file in your QT

Jim Arthurs · January 7th, 2005, 11:00 AM

One thing... there is plenty of horizontal fine lines interference visible when mauling the image... I assume this is the result of using some gain. Hopefully not a result of the conversion steps...

Jim Arthurs

Jim Arthurs · January 7th, 2005, 11:10 AM

Kaku, did you notice if you can switch to CF30 and still see no major picture time delay when live?

Many conflicting theories on the possibility that CF modes involve the MPEG compressor on the camera.

Seeing no extra delay in the live image would suggest that CF happens before MPEG...

Thanks,

Jim Arthurs

John Jay · January 7th, 2005, 11:46 AM

First of all thank you Kaku for your time and diligence in posting the footage for us to examine

My interest is in the turtle footage which is direct off the cam head

In concert with Jims opinion I believe there is no m2t compression evidence in the footage, however there is some subtle compression which I am trying to discern where from

For those who dont have broadband I have upped some frames from the turtle footage for others to analyse, they can be found here

http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0...U1DGA089KLQNNC

Take any of these bitmap frames and load into photoshop and magnify to 300% and carefully look via the blue channel only

It will be seen that there are some 4x4 pixel blocks which indicate compression - so where are these coming from? - could it be due to the blackmagic lossless jpeg encoder or from somewhere else?

I also saved them as a photoshop jpeg quality 10 to compare and the level of compression howver subtle is certainly better than this

maybe the blackmagic codec isnt truly lossless - realise the turtle file should be about 540meg, but it is only 365meg

Toke Lahti · January 7th, 2005, 12:41 PM

I didn't notice anything else than 2x2 blocks. Because of 4:2:0?

Btw, these clips look really nice with 50% size (=deinterlaced).
My work these days is mostly web distributed, so z1 might be quite nice for 960x540 endproduct...

Kaku Ito · January 7th, 2005, 06:59 PM

John Jay,

These are 2Vuy codec (which provides more real time editing), so little bit of something could be going on. I will try with other one.

John Jay · January 7th, 2005, 07:11 PM

Kaku

do you have the 4:2:2 version or the $:4:4 version (deliberate mistake ):) of the Blackmagic DeckLink HD Pro?

Kyle Edwards · January 10th, 2005, 02:49 AM

The links seem to be down, any chance of the footage coming back online?

Mike Tiffee · January 10th, 2005, 04:39 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jim Arthurs : Kaku, did you notice if you can switch to CF30 and still see no major picture time delay when live?
-->>>

There is no delay in the picture in any mode on the analog side. That would suggest to me deinterlacing before MPEG 2 compression.

Jim Arthurs · January 11th, 2005, 11:28 PM

Thanks Mike... I think that disproves the theory of Steve Mullen's that the CF modes are tied into the MPEG chip...

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

Mike Tiffee · January 11th, 2005, 11:35 PM

Yes, otherwise how would you introduce cineframe in DV mode?

January 7th, 2005, 06:20 AM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Capturing FX1 video signal with its analog component out to 8-bit uncompressed HD Here is the details. http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...055/index.html Please do not make direct link to the files in the ftp. If I see this happening, I will have to stop serving the files. It is okay to provide the link above. I will update that post later to provide you the comparison from digitally up-converted files.

January 7th, 2005, 11:46 AM	#8
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	First of all thank you Kaku for your time and diligence in posting the footage for us to examine My interest is in the turtle footage which is direct off the cam head In concert with Jims opinion I believe there is no m2t compression evidence in the footage, however there is some subtle compression which I am trying to discern where from For those who dont have broadband I have upped some frames from the turtle footage for others to analyse, they can be found here http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0...U1DGA089KLQNNC Take any of these bitmap frames and load into photoshop and magnify to 300% and carefully look via the blue channel only It will be seen that there are some 4x4 pixel blocks which indicate compression - so where are these coming from? - could it be due to the blackmagic lossless jpeg encoder or from somewhere else? I also saved them as a photoshop jpeg quality 10 to compare and the level of compression howver subtle is certainly better than this maybe the blackmagic codec isnt truly lossless - realise the turtle file should be about 540meg, but it is only 365meg __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

January 7th, 2005, 07:11 PM	#11
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Kaku do you have the 4:2:2 version or the $:4:4 version (deliberate mistake ):) of the Blackmagic DeckLink HD Pro? __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

January 7th, 2005, 08:28 AM	#2
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	Kaku, i do not understand why the benifit of the 1st method? Beacuse if it is playing from the tape, then you already have mpeg2 compression, i thought the point of this method was to try and bypass mpeg2 compression or have i missed the point? Anyway great work Kaku! P.S is there anyway that the same setup could be achieved from a laptop (thus avoiding having a computer setup in the field?)

January 7th, 2005, 08:33 AM	#3
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	1st. method is experimented because software companies are still under development of capturing and converting HDV files at this point. Especially, QuickTime seems to have more problems handling mpeg2. I should also post the same footage converted from m2t format to compare. I will do that over the weekend. And for now, as far as I know, there is no solution on laptop to do uncompressed HD right now. Does anyone know? I know where you are coming from, it would be great to be able to take this outside.

January 7th, 2005, 09:35 AM	#4
Toke Lahti Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 158	Somebody should start to manufacture a brick that has analog hd component input and fw800 output and embedded cineform's visually losless or sheervideo's math losless compression!

January 7th, 2005, 10:59 AM	#5
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	Okay, pulled the footage down and brought it into After Effects and did MAJOR level hauls on the image, checking into all three color channels, looking for indication of MPEG artifacts, which I can find quite easily on any other .m2t footage. There aren't any. This is without the slightest doubt BEFORE compresson. Thanks Kaku, one major rumor laid to rest! BTW, for those having trouble looking at the footage; download, un-zip. Rename the file with .mov extention. Go to BlackMagic-Design website and download the appropriate win or mac codec. Place the file in your QT

January 7th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#6
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	One thing... there is plenty of horizontal fine lines interference visible when mauling the image... I assume this is the result of using some gain. Hopefully not a result of the conversion steps... Jim Arthurs

January 7th, 2005, 11:10 AM	#7
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	Kaku, did you notice if you can switch to CF30 and still see no major picture time delay when live? Many conflicting theories on the possibility that CF modes involve the MPEG compressor on the camera. Seeing no extra delay in the live image would suggest that CF happens before MPEG... Thanks, Jim Arthurs

January 7th, 2005, 12:41 PM	#9
Toke Lahti Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 158	I didn't notice anything else than 2x2 blocks. Because of 4:2:0? Btw, these clips look really nice with 50% size (=deinterlaced). My work these days is mostly web distributed, so z1 might be quite nice for 960x540 endproduct...

January 7th, 2005, 06:59 PM	#10
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	John Jay, These are 2Vuy codec (which provides more real time editing), so little bit of something could be going on. I will try with other one.

January 10th, 2005, 02:49 AM	#12
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	The links seem to be down, any chance of the footage coming back online?

January 10th, 2005, 04:39 PM	#13
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	<<<-- Originally posted by Jim Arthurs : Kaku, did you notice if you can switch to CF30 and still see no major picture time delay when live? -->>> There is no delay in the picture in any mode on the analog side. That would suggest to me deinterlacing before MPEG 2 compression.

January 11th, 2005, 11:28 PM	#14
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	Thanks Mike... I think that disproves the theory of Steve Mullen's that the CF modes are tied into the MPEG chip... Regards, Jim Arthurs

January 11th, 2005, 11:35 PM	#15
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	Yes, otherwise how would you introduce cineframe in DV mode?