HDR-FX1 hack: lens disassembly pics

John Gaspain · January 5th, 2005, 12:39 PM

so did you get it finished? the pics look like you just got the cam apart.

Good luck!

Charles Papert · January 5th, 2005, 12:44 PM

What I think would be truly brilliant would be a modular front on the camera that would allow for multiple lens mounts. I own an Arri 2c that can be changed out for PL and Panavision mounts; it's not hard to imagine being able to do a similar thing here so that you could remount the stock lens, switch to a Canon XL mount to use their series of lenses or the Canon relay for the Mini35, a B4 mount to use any broadcast lens, a PL mount for using 16 or 35mm cine lenses, or a still camera (Nikon, Canon etc) mount . Obviously a lot of work to make all of these, but it would provide maximum flexibility. The tricky bit is seating aluminum parts into those molded plastic shells--a bit dicey. And really, there would be a significant issue with weight capacity, the camera structure is not designed to support a signficant lens up front. Even with still lenses, watch out for the big zooms or fat wide-angles...most fixed focal lenses should be OK weight-wise. I'm sure you guys are on to that.

I applaud those who have the cojones and/or resources to do this sort of thing. As a tot I was surrounded by some of the original hackers, gents who frequented the MIT Media Lab and to whom everything was a potential hack. Later, as a fledgling Steadicam operator with an ancient rig I was constantly having new parts built and retooling the thing bit by bit. I think the curvy plastic/solid state nature of these cameras make them seem a bit daunting to break into--you expect a gaggle of warning lights to go off, and the unit self-destructs in your hands into a puddle of slag, but it's still just a widget after all, and every widget can be improved on.

Go nuts, guys. Let's see what it can do.

Matteo Ricchetti · January 5th, 2005, 05:16 PM

2nd day THE FLANGE

again at www.eidomedia.com/hdv the 2nd part of the work... now we have a C mount on the camera after a lot of efforts to make around it enough space to put a Nikon barrel...

tomorrow I'll put online the first shot made with the nikon lens...

Many thanks for the visit to the site... Matteo

John Gaspain · January 5th, 2005, 06:15 PM

holy hell! nice flange....I bet it took some time in the lathe. Its gonna be nice when you get done.

Why are you using the c-mount video lens??? Wouldnt a 35mm film or still lens provide a more movie like look with deeper depth of field and have better glass?

Jim Lafferty · January 8th, 2005, 09:31 AM

35mm still lenses don't rotate smoothly, for one...

Scott Anderson · January 8th, 2005, 11:08 AM

The depth of field wouldn't increase with lenses designed for 35mm. The size of the imager is the determining factor in depth of field. If you put a C-Mount lens designed for, say 16mm, you'd simply get a more telephoto lens because the imager area for the FX-1 is smaller than a 16mm film aperture. If you put a lens designed for 35mm on this camera, you'd get a lens that is MUCH more telephoto than it would be in 35mm.

Regardless of the lens used, there will be a certain depth of field for a lens with a certain angle of view. For instance, if it takes a 35mm lens at 100mm telephoto to get a certain angle of view, and a 16mm C-Mount lens at 50mm telephoto to get the same angle of view, the depth of field will be the same for both of those lenses.

I know my math is wrong, but I'm just trying to illustrate a point. The smaller your imaging surface, the more telephoto a certain lens will be, and the more depth of field you will have.

I think that C-mount would be the ideal option for this camera, due to the low price and availability of lenses designed for 16mm or Super-16 film. Wouldn't the quality and resolving power of these lenses be plenty for HDV work?

/thinking of holding on to my 16mm Bolex for a bit longer

Brett Alan · January 8th, 2005, 03:28 PM

Alright guys. Reality check time. The Nikon lens mount looks cool and offers a few advantages like much much longer lenses but before you open your camera up don’t forget what you DONT get or even LOOSE when you make a modification like this:

1)You no longer have a lens that can give you a wide angle. Thats right. No remotely wide shots anymore due to the 7X factor.

2)You do NOT have 35mm DOF. You still only have 1/3" DV DOF. It may appear like you do but thats only because its using a lens that is much more telephoto than the built in camera's lens. You can get the exact look right now if you put a 2X lens in front. Lenses this long will give you the appearance of shallower DOF but it will also feel like every shot was taken from a great distance away as if you were constantly spying on your subject. Distracting.

3)Auto focus....gone. No a big deal for most but some people use auto focus.

Don’t get me wrong. This mod would be GREAT if you’re into doing surfing videos and wild life videography – basically anything that solely uses long to extremely long lenses. For most other types of videography though it’s little more than a gimmick and one that actually limits the camera more than empowers it. For me personally it seems like your giving up too much for too little.

January 5th, 2005, 12:39 PM	#31
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	so did you get it finished? the pics look like you just got the cam apart. Good luck! __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

January 5th, 2005, 12:44 PM	#32
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	What I think would be truly brilliant would be a modular front on the camera that would allow for multiple lens mounts. I own an Arri 2c that can be changed out for PL and Panavision mounts; it's not hard to imagine being able to do a similar thing here so that you could remount the stock lens, switch to a Canon XL mount to use their series of lenses or the Canon relay for the Mini35, a B4 mount to use any broadcast lens, a PL mount for using 16 or 35mm cine lenses, or a still camera (Nikon, Canon etc) mount . Obviously a lot of work to make all of these, but it would provide maximum flexibility. The tricky bit is seating aluminum parts into those molded plastic shells--a bit dicey. And really, there would be a significant issue with weight capacity, the camera structure is not designed to support a signficant lens up front. Even with still lenses, watch out for the big zooms or fat wide-angles...most fixed focal lenses should be OK weight-wise. I'm sure you guys are on to that. I applaud those who have the cojones and/or resources to do this sort of thing. As a tot I was surrounded by some of the original hackers, gents who frequented the MIT Media Lab and to whom everything was a potential hack. Later, as a fledgling Steadicam operator with an ancient rig I was constantly having new parts built and retooling the thing bit by bit. I think the curvy plastic/solid state nature of these cameras make them seem a bit daunting to break into--you expect a gaggle of warning lights to go off, and the unit self-destructs in your hands into a puddle of slag, but it's still just a widget after all, and every widget can be improved on. Go nuts, guys. Let's see what it can do. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 5th, 2005, 05:16 PM	#33
Matteo Ricchetti Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 39	the new C-mount Flange on FX1 2nd day THE FLANGE again at www.eidomedia.com/hdv the 2nd part of the work... now we have a C mount on the camera after a lot of efforts to make around it enough space to put a Nikon barrel... tomorrow I'll put online the first shot made with the nikon lens... Many thanks for the visit to the site... Matteo

January 5th, 2005, 06:15 PM	#34
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	holy hell! nice flange....I bet it took some time in the lathe. Its gonna be nice when you get done. Why are you using the c-mount video lens??? Wouldnt a 35mm film or still lens provide a more movie like look with deeper depth of field and have better glass? __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

January 8th, 2005, 09:31 AM	#35
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	35mm still lenses don't rotate smoothly, for one...

January 8th, 2005, 11:08 AM	#36
Scott Anderson Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 327	The depth of field wouldn't increase with lenses designed for 35mm. The size of the imager is the determining factor in depth of field. If you put a C-Mount lens designed for, say 16mm, you'd simply get a more telephoto lens because the imager area for the FX-1 is smaller than a 16mm film aperture. If you put a lens designed for 35mm on this camera, you'd get a lens that is MUCH more telephoto than it would be in 35mm. Regardless of the lens used, there will be a certain depth of field for a lens with a certain angle of view. For instance, if it takes a 35mm lens at 100mm telephoto to get a certain angle of view, and a 16mm C-Mount lens at 50mm telephoto to get the same angle of view, the depth of field will be the same for both of those lenses. I know my math is wrong, but I'm just trying to illustrate a point. The smaller your imaging surface, the more telephoto a certain lens will be, and the more depth of field you will have. I think that C-mount would be the ideal option for this camera, due to the low price and availability of lenses designed for 16mm or Super-16 film. Wouldn't the quality and resolving power of these lenses be plenty for HDV work? /thinking of holding on to my 16mm Bolex for a bit longer

January 8th, 2005, 03:28 PM	#37
Brett Alan New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 16	Alright guys. Reality check time. The Nikon lens mount looks cool and offers a few advantages like much much longer lenses but before you open your camera up don’t forget what you DONT get or even LOOSE when you make a modification like this: 1)You no longer have a lens that can give you a wide angle. Thats right. No remotely wide shots anymore due to the 7X factor. 2)You do NOT have 35mm DOF. You still only have 1/3" DV DOF. It may appear like you do but thats only because its using a lens that is much more telephoto than the built in camera's lens. You can get the exact look right now if you put a 2X lens in front. Lenses this long will give you the appearance of shallower DOF but it will also feel like every shot was taken from a great distance away as if you were constantly spying on your subject. Distracting. 3)Auto focus....gone. No a big deal for most but some people use auto focus. Don’t get me wrong. This mod would be GREAT if you’re into doing surfing videos and wild life videography – basically anything that solely uses long to extremely long lenses. For most other types of videography though it’s little more than a gimmick and one that actually limits the camera more than empowers it. For me personally it seems like your giving up too much for too little.