Will the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U be 24p capable or not at DVinfo.net

Dwight Flynn · December 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM

I plan on buying a 24p camera for my next camera purchase (the xl2 only if I don't have an hdv option). Getting one that does HD or HDV would definately be a plus. So my question is whether the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U are 24p capable camera or not. I am personally sick of the three card monty game these manufactures are playing. Can anyone in the know answer my question.

Kenn Christenson · December 23rd, 2004, 01:02 PM

The camera's 24 frame mode will be exactly the same as the FX1, that is, not a true progressive capture, but rather, a fairly poor deinterlace from 60i. You might want to wait until NAB. There's a pretty substantial rumor going around that Panasonic will be unveiling a P2 HD camera competitively priced with the Z1. Don't know if the camera will be 24P, though.

Dwight Flynn · December 23rd, 2004, 01:15 PM

Thanks Kenn. I read that the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U originate from an interlaced chip and that is why Sony want call it 24p. I admit I was hoping to get a 24p cam in the next few months, but it seems my only option is the xl2 (darn it all) since NAB is a ways away.

I assume that if I were to buy one of these cams I would be loosing 50% of my verticle resolution in the de-interlacing process (again darn it all)

Barry Green · December 23rd, 2004, 01:33 PM

If you want 24P, these are not the cameras for you.

These cameras don't offer progressive scan at all. So you get about 575 lines of resolution, or about one de-interlaced field's worth of resolution. However, that's not *that* much of a loss, because in interlaced mode they deliver about 775 lines, due to the kell factor and other issues. Even so, they scan at only 60i, so your straight de-interlacing option would give you a simulation of 30p, not 24p.

So if you want 24P and high-def, you don't have any prosumer choice right now. Rumors about about a Panasonic offering that would likely be DVCPRO-HD and 720p (which, in reality, delivers about as much vertical resolution as 1080i) and JVC has also made some statements that lead us to think they may introduce something as well.

Dwight Flynn · December 23rd, 2004, 03:36 PM

So what you are saying is that I should go with the xl2 for now and get an hd cam sometime in late 05 or early 06.

Barry Green · December 23rd, 2004, 03:40 PM

Well... no, I'm not necessarily saying that. I'm saying that you have to pick your priorities. If you want HD, the FX1 is the only game in town -- but it's not 24P.

If you want 24P, the XL2 and DVX offer it today, but neither is HD.

If you want both, you'll have to wait to see if anyone introduces an HD 24P camera (which JVC has already announced they'll do, but at a cost of $20,000 for a 2/3" shoulder-mount-style camera, and we're all anxiously awaiting any Panasonic announcement, and JVC may respond with a prosumer-priced camera as well).

I do think your range of selection will be wider later in the year or next year.

But if you really want 24P, the XL2 and DVX are available now and both offer it. And if you really want HD, the FX1 is available now. But if you want both... you can't have that. Yet.

Mike Tiffee · December 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : But if you want both... you can't have that. Yet. -->>>

If you want both, but not all the time, or in limited cases, you might consider DVfilm. http://www.dvfilm.com/fx1/index.htm

Dwight Flynn · December 23rd, 2004, 07:40 PM

Yeah Mike I have thought about the software conversion option, but a couple of thoughts. First, I am trying to get away from the resolution loss one experiences with these various interlace to progressive conversions. Secondly, generally if I can shoot in 24p to begin with I find I usually have more options in the post edit. Last there are other artifacts that pop up when using the conversion methods such as unwanted strobing (ie. dvfilm, algoligh, dynapel, twixtor, etc). All those options came into being because of the need for exactly what I am griping about right now. That being HD 24p (well maybe not the HD part but the 24p for sure).

December 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM	#1
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Will the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U be 24p capable or not I plan on buying a 24p camera for my next camera purchase (the xl2 only if I don't have an hdv option). Getting one that does HD or HDV would definately be a plus. So my question is whether the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U are 24p capable camera or not. I am personally sick of the three card monty game these manufactures are playing. Can anyone in the know answer my question.

December 23rd, 2004, 01:02 PM	#2
Kenn Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Medford Oregon Posts: 152	The camera's 24 frame mode will be exactly the same as the FX1, that is, not a true progressive capture, but rather, a fairly poor deinterlace from 60i. You might want to wait until NAB. There's a pretty substantial rumor going around that Panasonic will be unveiling a P2 HD camera competitively priced with the Z1. Don't know if the camera will be 24P, though.

December 23rd, 2004, 01:15 PM	#3
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Thanks Kenn. I read that the HVR-Z1/HVR-M10U originate from an interlaced chip and that is why Sony want call it 24p. I admit I was hoping to get a 24p cam in the next few months, but it seems my only option is the xl2 (darn it all) since NAB is a ways away. I assume that if I were to buy one of these cams I would be loosing 50% of my verticle resolution in the de-interlacing process (again darn it all)

December 23rd, 2004, 01:33 PM	#4
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If you want 24P, these are not the cameras for you. These cameras don't offer progressive scan at all. So you get about 575 lines of resolution, or about one de-interlaced field's worth of resolution. However, that's not that much of a loss, because in interlaced mode they deliver about 775 lines, due to the kell factor and other issues. Even so, they scan at only 60i, so your straight de-interlacing option would give you a simulation of 30p, not 24p. So if you want 24P and high-def, you don't have any prosumer choice right now. Rumors about about a Panasonic offering that would likely be DVCPRO-HD and 720p (which, in reality, delivers about as much vertical resolution as 1080i) and JVC has also made some statements that lead us to think they may introduce something as well.

December 23rd, 2004, 03:36 PM	#5
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	So what you are saying is that I should go with the xl2 for now and get an hd cam sometime in late 05 or early 06.

December 23rd, 2004, 03:40 PM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Well... no, I'm not necessarily saying that. I'm saying that you have to pick your priorities. If you want HD, the FX1 is the only game in town -- but it's not 24P. If you want 24P, the XL2 and DVX offer it today, but neither is HD. If you want both, you'll have to wait to see if anyone introduces an HD 24P camera (which JVC has already announced they'll do, but at a cost of $20,000 for a 2/3" shoulder-mount-style camera, and we're all anxiously awaiting any Panasonic announcement, and JVC may respond with a prosumer-priced camera as well). I do think your range of selection will be wider later in the year or next year. But if you really want 24P, the XL2 and DVX are available now and both offer it. And if you really want HD, the FX1 is available now. But if you want both... you can't have that. Yet.

December 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM	#7
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : But if you want both... you can't have that. Yet. -->>> If you want both, but not all the time, or in limited cases, you might consider DVfilm. http://www.dvfilm.com/fx1/index.htm

December 23rd, 2004, 07:40 PM	#8
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Yeah Mike I have thought about the software conversion option, but a couple of thoughts. First, I am trying to get away from the resolution loss one experiences with these various interlace to progressive conversions. Secondly, generally if I can shoot in 24p to begin with I find I usually have more options in the post edit. Last there are other artifacts that pop up when using the conversion methods such as unwanted strobing (ie. dvfilm, algoligh, dynapel, twixtor, etc). All those options came into being because of the need for exactly what I am griping about right now. That being HD 24p (well maybe not the HD part but the 24p for sure).