Does the HDR-FX1 give 4:2:2 color? at DVinfo.net

Joel Corral · November 4th, 2004, 10:32 PM

Does the HDR-FX1 give 4:2:2 color? i heard it does but i can not find any info that supports this. please help!!

Troy Lamont · November 4th, 2004, 10:35 PM

4:2:0 it's in the HDV spec I believe.

Troy

Joel Corral · November 4th, 2004, 10:57 PM

i looked
can you give me a link?

Troy Lamont · November 5th, 2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Media: Same as DV format (DV and/or Mini DV cassette tape)

Video
Video Signal
720/60p, 720/30p, 720/50p, 720/25p
1080/60i, 1080/50i

Number of Pixels
progressive: 1280 X 720
interlaced: 1440 X 1080

Aspect Ratio: 16:9

Compression: MPEG2 Video (profile & level: MP@H-14)

Sampling Frequency for Luminance
progessive: 74.25MHz
interlaced: 55.7MHz

Sampling Format: 4 : 2 : 0

Quantization: 8 bits (both luminance and chrominance)

Bit rate after Compression
progressive: Approximately 19Mbps
interlaced: Approximately 25Mbps

Audio
Compression : MPEG1 Audio Layer II

Sampling Frequency: 48kHz

Quantization: 16 bits

Bit rate after Compression: 384kbps

Audio Mode: Stereo (2 channels)

System
Data Format: MPEG2 Systems

Stream Type
progressive:Transport Stream
interlaced: Packetized Elementary Stream

Stream Interface: IEEE1394 (MPEG2-TS)

Sony link.

Troy

Joel Corral · November 5th, 2004, 01:45 PM

thanks! missed that, even the online support guys couldn't tell me. oh well thanks again!

Rhett Allen · December 10th, 2004, 09:31 PM

It is 4:2:0. The same a DVD and PAL.

HDV's 1080i 8 bits, 4:2:0, 25Mbps
HDCAM 1080i 8 bits, 3:1:1, 185Mbps
HDCAM SR 1080i 10-bit, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, 600Mbps

Jim Arthurs · December 12th, 2004, 01:31 AM

I wonder what the color specs are of the signal measured from the component outputs when the camera is "live".

This is apparently BEFORE compression, which opens up a whole bunch of interesting questions... is this at a point in the signal path before color space reduction to 4:2:0?

Jim Arthurs

Mike Gannon · December 12th, 2004, 08:02 AM

There has been some speculation as to the effective color sample in SD when HDV is ingested as 10-bit uncompressed. Some have maintained that in theory, you could end up with 4:2:2 with output to DVCPRO50 or Digibeta.

Barry Green explored this some time ago, perhaps he could elaborate now that he has the camera.

Barry Green · December 12th, 2004, 01:19 PM

No answers. It seems fascinating, but I have no way in front of me to test it.

One thing I will say -- the FX1 appears to display the image on the LCD prior to compression, which may or may not be the way other cameras work, I don't know. But the FX1 definitely displays the LCD at a pre-compression stage, because when switching to 4:3 mode it adds "pillarbox" bars on the side, but they're transparent -- you can still see the image, meaning you can still see what's on the unused portion of the CCD. So you're seeing the effects of CineFrame, the effects of picture controls, etc... all before the signal is compressed. I don't know if that equates to the signal that's hitting the component output, or what color resolution or bit depth you're seeing on the LCD. Once HDV gets ahold of it it's decimated to 8-bit 4:2:0, but in DV mode we're clearly seeing the signal before compression and before subsampling the CCD to make the DV signal.

So, it warrants further investigation.

November 4th, 2004, 10:32 PM	#1
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	Does the HDR-FX1 give 4:2:2 color? Does the HDR-FX1 give 4:2:2 color? i heard it does but i can not find any info that supports this. please help!!

November 4th, 2004, 10:35 PM	#2
Troy Lamont Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Studio City, CA Posts: 236	Close... 4:2:0 it's in the HDV spec I believe. Troy

November 4th, 2004, 10:57 PM	#3
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	i looked can you give me a link?

November 5th, 2004, 01:45 PM	#5
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	thanks! missed that, even the online support guys couldn't tell me. oh well thanks again!

December 10th, 2004, 09:31 PM	#6
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	It is 4:2:0. The same a DVD and PAL. HDV's 1080i 8 bits, 4:2:0, 25Mbps HDCAM 1080i 8 bits, 3:1:1, 185Mbps HDCAM SR 1080i 10-bit, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, 600Mbps

December 12th, 2004, 01:31 AM	#7
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	I wonder what the color specs are of the signal measured from the component outputs when the camera is "live". This is apparently BEFORE compression, which opens up a whole bunch of interesting questions... is this at a point in the signal path before color space reduction to 4:2:0? Jim Arthurs

December 12th, 2004, 08:02 AM	#8
Mike Gannon Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 48	There has been some speculation as to the effective color sample in SD when HDV is ingested as 10-bit uncompressed. Some have maintained that in theory, you could end up with 4:2:2 with output to DVCPRO50 or Digibeta. Barry Green explored this some time ago, perhaps he could elaborate now that he has the camera.

December 12th, 2004, 01:19 PM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	No answers. It seems fascinating, but I have no way in front of me to test it. One thing I will say -- the FX1 appears to display the image on the LCD prior to compression, which may or may not be the way other cameras work, I don't know. But the FX1 definitely displays the LCD at a pre-compression stage, because when switching to 4:3 mode it adds "pillarbox" bars on the side, but they're transparent -- you can still see the image, meaning you can still see what's on the unused portion of the CCD. So you're seeing the effects of CineFrame, the effects of picture controls, etc... all before the signal is compressed. I don't know if that equates to the signal that's hitting the component output, or what color resolution or bit depth you're seeing on the LCD. Once HDV gets ahold of it it's decimated to 8-bit 4:2:0, but in DV mode we're clearly seeing the signal before compression and before subsampling the CCD to make the DV signal. So, it warrants further investigation.