capture component out? was: B&H ships FX1

Gabor Lacza · November 6th, 2004, 11:17 PM

What is the difference in quality between firewire out or component out if both are already compressed signals ???

Travis Somerville · November 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM

i stayed on the phone with sony for about an hour to find out the answer to this question.

disclaimer: i had to ask the rep my question 8 times before i think he understoof.

he claims that the signal is simply sent out before any compression.

that means, straight from ccd's (never tainted my any mpeg2 compression), out to uncompressed analog.

just thought i'd share what took me so long.

also, i called (decklink) black magic rep. they don't have any HDef cards that take component input yet.

you're thinking of the SD extreme version from decklink. but wait a little while, i'm sure they'll have one out.

what i'm waiting for is dvcpro hd (100 mbs) card that takes component input. i think that's going to be a really hot codec and level of compression.

even better would be a device like firestore, that allows you to swap out regular harddrives like cassettes, and it converts your component signal into any codec bit rate you want (like selectable dv25, dvpro 50 - dvcpro hd 100).

wouldn't that be sweet!

travis
production guru

Gabor Lacza · November 7th, 2004, 08:50 AM

Well if this is true than it will be a big difference in quality with the analog component out.You can probably get a component to hd-sdi converter to use it with the blackmagic...

Darren Kelly · November 7th, 2004, 10:45 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza : Well if this is true than it will be a big difference in quality with the analog component out.You can probably get a component to hd-sdi converter to use it with the blackmagic... -->>>

AJA and other companies make HD-Analog - HD-SDI converters now. You can use the reverse converters to play it on an analog monitor.

The hitch - They are about $2500.00 each end.

This is not an activity for the light of wallet if you will.

DBK

Carlos E. Martinez · November 7th, 2004, 10:52 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly :

AJA and other companies make HD-Analog - HD-SDI converters now. You can use the reverse converters to play it on an analog monitor.

The hitch - They are about $2500.00 each end.

-->>>

Can we please think of a more simple and portable way to monitor from the FX1?

Can we get quality SD output from the camera to feed into a portable LCD monitor?

Something which costs at least 1/3 of the price of the camera should be more like it than the rather absurd options proposed here.

Framing (16:9) and contrast resolution should be more important than pixel resolution for field monitoring, I think.

Carlos

Darren Kelly · November 7th, 2004, 11:02 AM

Can we please think of a more simple and portable way to monitor from the FX1?

Can we get quality SD output from the camera to feed into a portable LCD monitor?
Carlos -->>>

Of course.

It allows S video out in RT and Composit out in RT. Buy the level of LCD monitor you can afford - touch screens on ebay are about $250.00.

There are also lots of other editing solutions out these days. One that I've looked at online only is the Canopus system. It allows COmponenet HD out too.

DBK

Alex Raskin · November 7th, 2004, 11:03 AM

Carlos, this is *not* about monitoring FX1's signal, but rather about CAPTURING it for further processing.

Jerry R from dv.com forums suggested this device that seems extremely lucrative:

bonsai drive by rosenthal

It seems to accept both video (component) and audio (RCA or XLR) and record them onto HDD much the way FireStore devices do.

Carlos E. Martinez · November 7th, 2004, 11:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Carlos, this is *not* about monitoring FX1's signal, but rather about CAPTURING it for further processing.

Jerry R from dv.com forums suggested this device that seems extremely lucrative:

bonsai drive by rosenthal

It seems to accept both video (component) and audio (RCA or XLR) and record them onto HDD much the way FireStore devices do. -->>>

Then perhaps I missed the point, because I am also looking for ways to capture the HD image for further processing.

Has Sony cut the paths to go up to real HD editing?

Carlos

Darren Kelly · November 7th, 2004, 11:26 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez :
Has Sony cut the paths to go up to real HD editing?

Carlos -->>>

Yes, of course Carlos, that's what we're all talking about.

The camera is capable of COmponent HD out - That means you can use any HD capture card to capture the signal uncompressed and edit it uncompressed (Or you can recompress if you so desire).

The only thing you need to do is use an Analog - Digital HD converter to capture it using todays solutions (Kona, Decklink, Cinewave) Canopus and Pinnacle capture HD Analog component, they also both capture HDV from the FW connection.

Does this address your question?

DBK

Gabor Lacza · November 7th, 2004, 02:39 PM

Carlos,
this device you suggested seems to record ntsc and pal uncompressed only....
But I still not sure that this component out is not after mpeg2 compression...hmmm

Darren Kelly · November 7th, 2004, 04:52 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza : Carlos,
this device you suggested seems to record ntsc and pal uncompressed only....
But I still not sure that this component out is not after mpeg2 compression...hmmm -->>>

It doesn't actually matter.

If you like the look of the signal out of component, then great. If you don't then it's not an option for you.

Way too much debate on this subject. From all reports the image quality coming out of the component is great. SO WHO CARES WHERE THE COMPRESSION IS?

DBK

Carlos E. Martinez · November 7th, 2004, 05:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly :
Way too much debate on this subject. From all reports the image quality coming out of the component is great. SO WHO CARES WHERE THE COMPRESSION IS?
-->>>

Completely agreed!

The main and revolutionary idea over this new tool is that it may help us all indy creators.

The main debate should be over how to improve on the limitations and widen its horizons. And it has always been the spirit of my questions and look into the answers.

Carlos

Giroud Francois · November 7th, 2004, 06:07 PM

look for a product called HD-bridge from Miranda

Joel Corral · November 7th, 2004, 07:28 PM

so then so i can understand correctly,

in order to recieve uncompressed data from the fx1 i would need to connect to component out to a hard drive like firestore. but once the information goes on minidv it will be compressed @ 25Mbs. so what would the format of the footage be once it is uncomopressed. AVI or MOV or what?

thanks

Jeff Nelson · November 7th, 2004, 10:50 PM

If I want to just firewire this footage into a computer as 720 x 480 in order to edit in that format from there forward, how would I do it, and how would the quality be? I'm interested in getting this w/out going all the way to HD editing right now, if the picture quality is that much better going out of the camera and into SD and taking it from there for DVD or VHS output. Are you still going to get some exceptional picture quality like that, and how would it work?

Thanks!

November 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM	#17
Travis Somerville New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: texas, USA Posts: 5	Sony rep says uncompressed i stayed on the phone with sony for about an hour to find out the answer to this question. disclaimer: i had to ask the rep my question 8 times before i think he understoof. he claims that the signal is simply sent out before any compression. that means, straight from ccd's (never tainted my any mpeg2 compression), out to uncompressed analog. just thought i'd share what took me so long. also, i called (decklink) black magic rep. they don't have any HDef cards that take component input yet. you're thinking of the SD extreme version from decklink. but wait a little while, i'm sure they'll have one out. what i'm waiting for is dvcpro hd (100 mbs) card that takes component input. i think that's going to be a really hot codec and level of compression. even better would be a device like firestore, that allows you to swap out regular harddrives like cassettes, and it converts your component signal into any codec bit rate you want (like selectable dv25, dvpro 50 - dvcpro hd 100). wouldn't that be sweet! travis production guru

November 7th, 2004, 10:45 AM	#19
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza : Well if this is true than it will be a big difference in quality with the analog component out.You can probably get a component to hd-sdi converter to use it with the blackmagic... -->>> AJA and other companies make HD-Analog - HD-SDI converters now. You can use the reverse converters to play it on an analog monitor. The hitch - They are about $2500.00 each end. This is not an activity for the light of wallet if you will. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 7th, 2004, 11:02 AM	#21
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	Can we please think of a more simple and portable way to monitor from the FX1? Can we get quality SD output from the camera to feed into a portable LCD monitor? Carlos -->>> Of course. It allows S video out in RT and Composit out in RT. Buy the level of LCD monitor you can afford - touch screens on ebay are about $250.00. There are also lots of other editing solutions out these days. One that I've looked at online only is the Canopus system. It allows COmponenet HD out too. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 7th, 2004, 11:26 AM	#24
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : Has Sony cut the paths to go up to real HD editing? Carlos -->>> Yes, of course Carlos, that's what we're all talking about. The camera is capable of COmponent HD out - That means you can use any HD capture card to capture the signal uncompressed and edit it uncompressed (Or you can recompress if you so desire). The only thing you need to do is use an Analog - Digital HD converter to capture it using todays solutions (Kona, Decklink, Cinewave) Canopus and Pinnacle capture HD Analog component, they also both capture HDV from the FW connection. Does this address your question? DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 7th, 2004, 04:52 PM	#26
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza : Carlos, this device you suggested seems to record ntsc and pal uncompressed only.... But I still not sure that this component out is not after mpeg2 compression...hmmm -->>> It doesn't actually matter. If you like the look of the signal out of component, then great. If you don't then it's not an option for you. Way too much debate on this subject. From all reports the image quality coming out of the component is great. SO WHO CARES WHERE THE COMPRESSION IS? DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 6th, 2004, 11:17 PM	#16
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	What is the difference in quality between firewire out or component out if both are already compressed signals ???

November 7th, 2004, 08:50 AM	#18
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Well if this is true than it will be a big difference in quality with the analog component out.You can probably get a component to hd-sdi converter to use it with the blackmagic...

November 7th, 2004, 10:52 AM	#20
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : AJA and other companies make HD-Analog - HD-SDI converters now. You can use the reverse converters to play it on an analog monitor. The hitch - They are about $2500.00 each end. -->>> Can we please think of a more simple and portable way to monitor from the FX1? Can we get quality SD output from the camera to feed into a portable LCD monitor? Something which costs at least 1/3 of the price of the camera should be more like it than the rather absurd options proposed here. Framing (16:9) and contrast resolution should be more important than pixel resolution for field monitoring, I think. Carlos

November 7th, 2004, 11:03 AM	#22
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Carlos, this is not about monitoring FX1's signal, but rather about CAPTURING it for further processing. Jerry R from dv.com forums suggested this device that seems extremely lucrative: bonsai drive by rosenthal It seems to accept both video (component) and audio (RCA or XLR) and record them onto HDD much the way FireStore devices do.

November 7th, 2004, 11:20 AM	#23
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Carlos, this is not about monitoring FX1's signal, but rather about CAPTURING it for further processing. Jerry R from dv.com forums suggested this device that seems extremely lucrative: bonsai drive by rosenthal It seems to accept both video (component) and audio (RCA or XLR) and record them onto HDD much the way FireStore devices do. -->>> Then perhaps I missed the point, because I am also looking for ways to capture the HD image for further processing. Has Sony cut the paths to go up to real HD editing? Carlos

November 7th, 2004, 02:39 PM	#25
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Carlos, this device you suggested seems to record ntsc and pal uncompressed only.... But I still not sure that this component out is not after mpeg2 compression...hmmm

November 7th, 2004, 05:49 PM	#27
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : Way too much debate on this subject. From all reports the image quality coming out of the component is great. SO WHO CARES WHERE THE COMPRESSION IS? -->>> Completely agreed! The main and revolutionary idea over this new tool is that it may help us all indy creators. The main debate should be over how to improve on the limitations and widen its horizons. And it has always been the spirit of my questions and look into the answers. Carlos

November 7th, 2004, 06:07 PM	#28
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	look for a product called HD-bridge from Miranda

November 7th, 2004, 07:28 PM	#29
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	so then so i can understand correctly, in order to recieve uncompressed data from the fx1 i would need to connect to component out to a hard drive like firestore. but once the information goes on minidv it will be compressed @ 25Mbs. so what would the format of the footage be once it is uncomopressed. AVI or MOV or what? thanks

November 7th, 2004, 10:50 PM	#30
Jeff Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 194	Guys -- can I load this in as SD? If I want to just firewire this footage into a computer as 720 x 480 in order to edit in that format from there forward, how would I do it, and how would the quality be? I'm interested in getting this w/out going all the way to HD editing right now, if the picture quality is that much better going out of the camera and into SD and taking it from there for DVD or VHS output. Are you still going to get some exceptional picture quality like that, and how would it work? Thanks!