dvd's with FX1 footage at DVinfo.net

Pete Balistrieri · September 20th, 2004, 02:00 PM

In the constant debate on which camera to purchase, the FX1 has given the market another new option that is exciting to most.

If an individual wants to shoot creative material and then show that to others [assuming that would include most of us], can someone with FCP-HD and a great computer burn a DVD with the footage from this camera and distribute it to others?

The XL-2 and the DVX-100a are SD, but you can burn a DVD and send it to people. To be clear, I am not being sarcastic, I am seriously wondering if you can burn a DVD with what you shoot on this camera [HDV]. If not, then it clears up a lot of hesitation I have with which camera I should purchase.

Aaron Shaw · September 20th, 2004, 03:31 PM

Currently there is no way to burn an HD-DVD. You can burn the data itself to a DVD no problem but it won't play on your DVD player.

So... right now HD cannot be delivered in a meaningful way unless you intend for the distributed material to only be viewed on a computer, or perhaps, run straight to a TV from a computers video card.

George Ellis · September 20th, 2004, 03:39 PM

Caveat - I do think some players from Kiss Technology now support the Div-X HD encoding (500?). They have announced and should soon have the WMV-HD players (the 600 and 608.) These are for regular red laser disc. Those players are based off a Sigma Design chipset.

Of course, that means you have to get everyone to run out and buy one. .. ;)

Aaron Shaw · September 20th, 2004, 03:50 PM

wow, cool. Thanks for the information George! I may have to go buy one myself...

Pete Balistrieri · September 20th, 2004, 04:02 PM

I'm not looking to shoot holes, and I really am looking forward to seeing footage when the camera is available, but isn't this a rather large drawback at present?

I know there are a lot of opinions as to image quality of these cameras and how they compare to each other. Maybe an interlaced HD image that is played with in post will prove to be better than any SD 24p image [for independent film work]

However, it seems pretty critical that you can...
A. play the footage.
B. Have others view the footage.

I'm not discounting the future, but this issue is not being brought up enough on the boards [as far as I can tell]. It's all about each 3 chip camera and which image is best.

If you want to shoot something and show it to people you need a way to deliver it. I am really interested in the capabilities of the new FX1, but it may be a moot point if I can't deliver the footage after it's edited.

I hope I'm wrong.

Mike Gannon · September 20th, 2004, 04:33 PM

The way I'm looking at it is the old garbage in/garbage out computer agrgument. I'm not saying DV or SD is garbage. I've gotten some great footage out of BetaSP in a professionally lit environment. But in my view, you want to get the best source material possible regardless of output.

I have shot a good deal of 35mm film and a good deal more of 16mm. For broadcast work, some of that had to be dubbed to 1" or BetaSP. Did film look better in those formats than a tape source? Absolutely.

That's why I find this camera so exciting. But then again, I felt the same way about the XL-2 six months ago. In any event, you will need to downconvert HDV to DVD in the same way you downconvert 35mm to DVD. Will it look better than SD on the XL-2? That's what we all want to know before we jump.

Now as to showing people your work, how would you show them 35mm film if they don't have a 35mm projector? The same principle applies.

Pete Balistrieri · September 21st, 2004, 07:51 AM

Good point. If the interlaced HDV image downconverted to SD and burned to DVD looks better than regular SD, the FX1 may trump the other cameras.

I guess the next logical question is, what is the cost associated with converting HDV to SD? Is that something that FCP can do already?

If so, then I guess I'm back to image and feature set preference, which can only be answered by me. Assuming I can rent both cameras and compare the two.

Mike Gannon · September 22nd, 2004, 06:38 AM

Apple, along with most of the other NLE providers, have announced that they will support HDV. In your case, you may need an upgrade and/or plug in depending on your current set up.

Dennis Kane · September 22nd, 2004, 12:31 PM

No DVD recorder available now can record HD, because the DVD Video format doesn't have enough resolution for high-def--you'll have to wait for higher-capacity formats such as Blu-ray for that.
Cable and satellite companies do offer HD-capable hard disk-based DVRs like:

* Dish Network DVR 921
* DirecTV HD DVR (Also known as the DirecTiVo because it uses the highly popular TiVo interface.)

Check with your cable or satellite provider if you're interested in "TiVo-ing" high-def.

Michael Struthers · September 22nd, 2004, 01:59 PM

Unfortunately Sony giveth and taketh away...Sony will be fighting the rest of the world for HD standards. I'd rather see everyone jump on HD-DVD.

I'm hoping Apple upgrades FCP shortly to include support for HDV. I'm trying to figure my editing flow.

1) Shoot on ze Sony Fx-1

2) Edit in FCP. Now do I need a g5 for this. Dual-G5? Can I get by, albeit slowly (and I don't need 4 realtime streams) with a g4?

3) Make DVD's for sale. OR master on HD tape for delivery to film festival OR save out as WM9 for online delivery to film festival OR ?

40 Will HD-DVD'S play BOTH HD and DV standards? Could I burn a movie in both formats on an HD-DVD and the player(user) can decide which one, HD or DV(SD) to view? <------- wishful thinking here>

Either way, ya gotta go for more resolution. Can't wait to see someone do a transfer to 35mm film. Maybe I'll be the first!

Riley Harmon · September 23rd, 2004, 11:31 AM

Actually you can burn an regular DVD with HD footage. Infact, it will be extremely high quality on an SD tv. I mean look at film, they take a very high resolution and scale it down to SD resolution = very high reso dvd, which also means you can make your bitrate smaller without as much loss of quality. So to answer your original question, yes you can make a dvd from HD footage but it requires rendering (down-scaling it) but in return you get some nice images.

Aaron Shaw · September 23rd, 2004, 11:47 AM

Theoretically so at least. The reason film looks so much better, IMO, is because it's film not because of the added resolution. I've seen plenty of HD stuff on my SD TV that didn't look any different than, say, a DVX. What matters first and foremost (for SD play) is the quality of the image. Resolution only comes into play after.

Pete Balistrieri · September 23rd, 2004, 11:50 AM

I think it is a good question. In this transition period to full-on HD, someone who lays out the cash for this [or any 3 chip] camera will be encouraged to know they can use the footage in the same manner.

Now the camera just needs to arrive, then the pro version after that, then the panasonic, and so on, and so on...

Jeff Patnaude · September 23rd, 2004, 11:57 AM

It sounded to me like the current FCP 4.5 HD will work just fine with the new Sony FX-1. The bit rate -correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will anyway :>)
is the same as DV 25mbs. on an MPEG2 stream. The apple website alluded to making allowances for the camera and new format already.
Now, If we only had a HDV DVD player and a DLP projector....

A guy could "4 wall" his own indie film all over the place.
Mwaaaahahahahaaa!

hhhmmm, sorry...

Jeff P.

September 20th, 2004, 02:00 PM	#1
Pete Balistrieri Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 26	dvd's with FX1 footage In the constant debate on which camera to purchase, the FX1 has given the market another new option that is exciting to most. If an individual wants to shoot creative material and then show that to others [assuming that would include most of us], can someone with FCP-HD and a great computer burn a DVD with the footage from this camera and distribute it to others? The XL-2 and the DVX-100a are SD, but you can burn a DVD and send it to people. To be clear, I am not being sarcastic, I am seriously wondering if you can burn a DVD with what you shoot on this camera [HDV]. If not, then it clears up a lot of hesitation I have with which camera I should purchase.

September 22nd, 2004, 01:59 PM	#10
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Unfortunately Sony giveth and taketh away...Sony will be fighting the rest of the world for HD standards. I'd rather see everyone jump on HD-DVD. I'm hoping Apple upgrades FCP shortly to include support for HDV. I'm trying to figure my editing flow. 1) Shoot on ze Sony Fx-1 2) Edit in FCP. Now do I need a g5 for this. Dual-G5? Can I get by, albeit slowly (and I don't need 4 realtime streams) with a g4? 3) Make DVD's for sale. OR master on HD tape for delivery to film festival OR save out as WM9 for online delivery to film festival OR ? 40 Will HD-DVD'S play BOTH HD and DV standards? Could I burn a movie in both formats on an HD-DVD and the player(user) can decide which one, HD or DV(SD) to view? <------- wishful thinking here> Either way, ya gotta go for more resolution. Can't wait to see someone do a transfer to 35mm film. Maybe I'll be the first! __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

September 20th, 2004, 03:31 PM	#2
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Currently there is no way to burn an HD-DVD. You can burn the data itself to a DVD no problem but it won't play on your DVD player. So... right now HD cannot be delivered in a meaningful way unless you intend for the distributed material to only be viewed on a computer, or perhaps, run straight to a TV from a computers video card.

September 20th, 2004, 03:39 PM	#3
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Caveat - I do think some players from Kiss Technology now support the Div-X HD encoding (500?). They have announced and should soon have the WMV-HD players (the 600 and 608.) These are for regular red laser disc. Those players are based off a Sigma Design chipset. Of course, that means you have to get everyone to run out and buy one. .. ;)

September 20th, 2004, 03:50 PM	#4
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	wow, cool. Thanks for the information George! I may have to go buy one myself...

September 20th, 2004, 04:02 PM	#5
Pete Balistrieri Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 26	I'm not looking to shoot holes, and I really am looking forward to seeing footage when the camera is available, but isn't this a rather large drawback at present? I know there are a lot of opinions as to image quality of these cameras and how they compare to each other. Maybe an interlaced HD image that is played with in post will prove to be better than any SD 24p image [for independent film work] However, it seems pretty critical that you can... A. play the footage. B. Have others view the footage. I'm not discounting the future, but this issue is not being brought up enough on the boards [as far as I can tell]. It's all about each 3 chip camera and which image is best. If you want to shoot something and show it to people you need a way to deliver it. I am really interested in the capabilities of the new FX1, but it may be a moot point if I can't deliver the footage after it's edited. I hope I'm wrong.

September 20th, 2004, 04:33 PM	#6
Mike Gannon Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 48	The way I'm looking at it is the old garbage in/garbage out computer agrgument. I'm not saying DV or SD is garbage. I've gotten some great footage out of BetaSP in a professionally lit environment. But in my view, you want to get the best source material possible regardless of output. I have shot a good deal of 35mm film and a good deal more of 16mm. For broadcast work, some of that had to be dubbed to 1" or BetaSP. Did film look better in those formats than a tape source? Absolutely. That's why I find this camera so exciting. But then again, I felt the same way about the XL-2 six months ago. In any event, you will need to downconvert HDV to DVD in the same way you downconvert 35mm to DVD. Will it look better than SD on the XL-2? That's what we all want to know before we jump. Now as to showing people your work, how would you show them 35mm film if they don't have a 35mm projector? The same principle applies.

September 21st, 2004, 07:51 AM	#7
Pete Balistrieri Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 26	Good point. If the interlaced HDV image downconverted to SD and burned to DVD looks better than regular SD, the FX1 may trump the other cameras. I guess the next logical question is, what is the cost associated with converting HDV to SD? Is that something that FCP can do already? If so, then I guess I'm back to image and feature set preference, which can only be answered by me. Assuming I can rent both cameras and compare the two.

September 22nd, 2004, 06:38 AM	#8
Mike Gannon Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 48	Apple, along with most of the other NLE providers, have announced that they will support HDV. In your case, you may need an upgrade and/or plug in depending on your current set up.

September 22nd, 2004, 12:31 PM	#9
Dennis Kane Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 106	No DVD recorder available now can record HD, because the DVD Video format doesn't have enough resolution for high-def--you'll have to wait for higher-capacity formats such as Blu-ray for that. Cable and satellite companies do offer HD-capable hard disk-based DVRs like: * Dish Network DVR 921 * DirecTV HD DVR (Also known as the DirecTiVo because it uses the highly popular TiVo interface.) Check with your cable or satellite provider if you're interested in "TiVo-ing" high-def.

September 23rd, 2004, 11:31 AM	#11
Riley Harmon Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	Actually you can burn an regular DVD with HD footage. Infact, it will be extremely high quality on an SD tv. I mean look at film, they take a very high resolution and scale it down to SD resolution = very high reso dvd, which also means you can make your bitrate smaller without as much loss of quality. So to answer your original question, yes you can make a dvd from HD footage but it requires rendering (down-scaling it) but in return you get some nice images.

September 23rd, 2004, 11:47 AM	#12
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Theoretically so at least. The reason film looks so much better, IMO, is because it's film not because of the added resolution. I've seen plenty of HD stuff on my SD TV that didn't look any different than, say, a DVX. What matters first and foremost (for SD play) is the quality of the image. Resolution only comes into play after.

September 23rd, 2004, 11:50 AM	#13
Pete Balistrieri Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 26	I think it is a good question. In this transition period to full-on HD, someone who lays out the cash for this [or any 3 chip] camera will be encouraged to know they can use the footage in the same manner. Now the camera just needs to arrive, then the pro version after that, then the panasonic, and so on, and so on...

September 23rd, 2004, 11:57 AM	#14
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	It sounded to me like the current FCP 4.5 HD will work just fine with the new Sony FX-1. The bit rate -correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will anyway :>) is the same as DV 25mbs. on an MPEG2 stream. The apple website alluded to making allowances for the camera and new format already. Now, If we only had a HDV DVD player and a DLP projector.... A guy could "4 wall" his own indie film all over the place. Mwaaaahahahahaaa! hhhmmm, sorry... Jeff P.