Sony Z1 and FX1 various questions 2004 - 2005

Gabor Lacza · May 9th, 2005, 05:46 AM

Where is the best deal on the Z1 now ??? I deceided to buy one !!
Gabor

Boyd Ostroff · May 9th, 2005, 09:14 AM

Since you're in Hungary I'm not sure what the best approach will be.

However we urge everyone to buy from the DVinfo sponsors who make this site possible. In the case of the Z-1 that would be the following:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=357486&is=REG

http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/m...ct_Code=HVRZ1U

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995...a?OpenDocument

http://www.zotzdigital.com/item.php?pid=1476&cid=381

Tony Wilson · May 10th, 2005, 01:07 AM

I can't see any other posts listing this very seious problem with the Z1 - perhaps it is just with cameras delivered to Australia!
When operating in PRESET mode (the usual pro mode to put a roll number on the tape) the camera loses 4 frames every time you turn it off! This also occurs when the camera is on and the heads power down after about 3 minutes of non use. It also happens when you have gone to the deck to review something AND after viewing used END SEARCH to reset to the last frame. Going back to camera mode after reviewing footage and using the REC REVIEW feature does not correct the problem either.
The editor said that digitising my 10 rolls in to FCP was a pain as on the first roll alone there were about 30 t/c breaks.
Yes, a way around this is to shoot in REGEN mode - but THE Z1 is supposed to be a professional camera so I expect to be able to use the professional features on it. I've passed this problem on to Sony a few days ago but still have heard nothing back. What's the Sony service like in the States - I hope it's better than head office here.

Bjorn Moren · May 11th, 2005, 01:39 AM

What whould have been really useful to help understand the FX1/Z1 is two detailed block diagrams. One that includes every physical component, and one that includes the full image aquisition and processing flow. The very limited handbook doesn't include such information. Perhaps we at hdvinfo can assemble such diagrams. I have browsed through Sony's site, but not found anything. Nothing beats experimenting with the camera in the field, but I also need to know details about the inner workings to be able to make smart decisions.

As I understand it there are two information stream bottle necks for this type of camera. A) The ADC. Here some information is lost due to limited resolution of the digital aquisition. B) The mpeg compression for tape storage. Here a lot of information is lost, especially color. Understanding at what stage the various camera settings and effects are applied can help me understand the camera better, and know to what extent I should use them. My approach so far has been to use all camera settings/effects to aquire a result as close as possible to what the final post result should look like, since I want the best possible video before the mpeg crunches off some color information etc. Still I wonder about the following:

1. Gain, how is it applied? I suspect it controls the video amplifiers that sits between the CCD and the ADC, but it could as well control CCD bias current or even (not likely) be a purely digital function applied after the ADC.

2. The sharpness setting, is that a digital "effect" or a tweak of the CCD?

3. Color level, phase and skintone are they all digital effects, or how are they produced?

4. The iris. My feeling when tweaking the iris and looking at it through the lens is that it follows discrete stops. It is also slightly delayed (1/3 sec or so), perhaps for lighting change smoothness. On the other hand I see no technical reason why iris should be discrete, and the fine grain feeling on the iris knob gives a false sense of unlimited number of sub stops. Is it discrete or not? (for practical reasons it doesn't really matter, but I'm curious).

5. Are the lenses treated for UV? (I use a UV filter anyway)

6. Whitebalance must be a digital effect. I cant understand how it would work any other way?

7. How about cinematone, is it digital, or is it an analogue color filter/compressor applied to the CCD output?

Regards
/Björn Morén

Gabor Lacza · May 11th, 2005, 12:28 PM

Anyone has some info on this Cavison 4x5.65 Matte Box?
http://www.cavision.com/Mattbox/4x5_65.htm
Gabor

Bill Pryor · May 13th, 2005, 02:25 PM

Hey, Douglas, when Sony produced that Z1 demo DVD, I know all the stuff was shot with the Z1. When it was edited, how was that done? Was it edited HDV, like captured from the HDV deck into a NLE, or did they do some other trick as some are saying on at least one other board?

Mike Moncrief · May 14th, 2005, 02:23 PM

Hi,

Looking for some confirmation from others on whether something works, or does not work(my experience).. When i try to use the camera as a pass thru device..Signal coming from the computer (vegas 6) firewire out to the camera, and then feeding the component out of the camera to a monitor.. I do not get any signal.. if I use composite or S-Video in this same configuration, i do have a signal that is passed to the monitor.. Anyone experience this?? How about on the Z1?? The same ??

Thanks,
Mike Moncrief

Jack Zhang · May 14th, 2005, 02:44 PM

According to the manual, the camcorder does not support IEEE in and component out. You have to print your damn project to tape then play your project on tape to use the component out.

Very frustrating!

Marc Fairorth · May 15th, 2005, 08:21 PM

I've plugged headphones into the headphone jack on the FX1, but can't hear any audio through them. Is there something I need to set that I've overlooked?

Thanks!

Bryan McCullough · May 15th, 2005, 09:06 PM

Make sure the volume is turned up.

Also check your levels and make sure you've actually got an audio signal.

Franzino Belgica · May 16th, 2005, 09:06 AM

This post may be deleted

Antony Meadley · May 17th, 2005, 06:39 AM

In all the promo material, and also when I phoned Sony to check with them, they say that the Z1 is switchable between NTSC and PAL and that the only difference between the different models (Z1E, Z1U, Z1J, etc) is the power lead and the language of the manuals and menus.

However, now that I have bought a Z1U, the manual explicitly states that it will only output NTSC.

Is the manual wrong or are Sony misleading people???

Colvin Eccleston · May 17th, 2005, 07:02 AM

The manual isn't great. Check your settings menues and see how you can set it up. My z1 e can shoot pal/ntsc so yours should be able to too. It is the fx1 that is either or.

Maurizio Panella · May 17th, 2005, 10:51 AM

Hi all,I use a 170 with Du1 and I'm really glad about it.I'd like to know if is possible to use the same portable hd with Z1 without problems.
Thanks in advance.
Maurizio,Italy.

Whit Wales · May 19th, 2005, 12:03 PM

Have a friend who is working on a documentary and has been shooting with a pd-170. She would like me to shoot some b-roll for her in my part of the country. Mostly outdoors and/or controlled lighting. Anyone had any experience in mixing these two cameras. How hard are they to match up?

Thanks,

Whit

May 9th, 2005, 05:46 AM	#196
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Best Price of Z1 Where is the best deal on the Z1 now ??? I deceided to buy one !! Gabor

May 10th, 2005, 01:07 AM	#198
Tony Wilson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 12	Time-code fault in PRESET mode with Z1 I can't see any other posts listing this very seious problem with the Z1 - perhaps it is just with cameras delivered to Australia! When operating in PRESET mode (the usual pro mode to put a roll number on the tape) the camera loses 4 frames every time you turn it off! This also occurs when the camera is on and the heads power down after about 3 minutes of non use. It also happens when you have gone to the deck to review something AND after viewing used END SEARCH to reset to the last frame. Going back to camera mode after reviewing footage and using the REC REVIEW feature does not correct the problem either. The editor said that digitising my 10 rolls in to FCP was a pain as on the first roll alone there were about 30 t/c breaks. Yes, a way around this is to shoot in REGEN mode - but THE Z1 is supposed to be a professional camera so I expect to be able to use the professional features on it. I've passed this problem on to Sony a few days ago but still have heard nothing back. What's the Sony service like in the States - I hope it's better than head office here. __________________ Tony Wilson ACS Freelance DOP specialising in docos DV and (now) Z1 shooting. Based in Sydney, Australia tony@theCameraClass.com.au

May 11th, 2005, 01:39 AM	#199
Bjorn Moren Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 65	Understanding the Fx1/Z1 What whould have been really useful to help understand the FX1/Z1 is two detailed block diagrams. One that includes every physical component, and one that includes the full image aquisition and processing flow. The very limited handbook doesn't include such information. Perhaps we at hdvinfo can assemble such diagrams. I have browsed through Sony's site, but not found anything. Nothing beats experimenting with the camera in the field, but I also need to know details about the inner workings to be able to make smart decisions. As I understand it there are two information stream bottle necks for this type of camera. A) The ADC. Here some information is lost due to limited resolution of the digital aquisition. B) The mpeg compression for tape storage. Here a lot of information is lost, especially color. Understanding at what stage the various camera settings and effects are applied can help me understand the camera better, and know to what extent I should use them. My approach so far has been to use all camera settings/effects to aquire a result as close as possible to what the final post result should look like, since I want the best possible video before the mpeg crunches off some color information etc. Still I wonder about the following: 1. Gain, how is it applied? I suspect it controls the video amplifiers that sits between the CCD and the ADC, but it could as well control CCD bias current or even (not likely) be a purely digital function applied after the ADC. 2. The sharpness setting, is that a digital "effect" or a tweak of the CCD? 3. Color level, phase and skintone are they all digital effects, or how are they produced? 4. The iris. My feeling when tweaking the iris and looking at it through the lens is that it follows discrete stops. It is also slightly delayed (1/3 sec or so), perhaps for lighting change smoothness. On the other hand I see no technical reason why iris should be discrete, and the fine grain feeling on the iris knob gives a false sense of unlimited number of sub stops. Is it discrete or not? (for practical reasons it doesn't really matter, but I'm curious). 5. Are the lenses treated for UV? (I use a UV filter anyway) 6. Whitebalance must be a digital effect. I cant understand how it would work any other way? 7. How about cinematone, is it digital, or is it an analogue color filter/compressor applied to the CCD output? Regards /Björn Morén

May 11th, 2005, 12:28 PM	#200
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Matte Box Anyone has some info on this Cavison 4x5.65 Matte Box? http://www.cavision.com/Mattbox/4x5_65.htm Gabor

May 13th, 2005, 02:25 PM	#201
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Douglas Spotted Eagle--a Z1 question Hey, Douglas, when Sony produced that Z1 demo DVD, I know all the stuff was shot with the Z1. When it was edited, how was that done? Was it edited HDV, like captured from the HDV deck into a NLE, or did they do some other trick as some are saying on at least one other board?

May 9th, 2005, 09:14 AM	#197
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,790	Since you're in Hungary I'm not sure what the best approach will be. However we urge everyone to buy from the DVinfo sponsors who make this site possible. In the case of the Z-1 that would be the following: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=357486&is=REG http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/m...ct_Code=HVRZ1U http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995...a?OpenDocument http://www.zotzdigital.com/item.php?pid=1476&cid=381

May 14th, 2005, 02:23 PM	#202
Mike Moncrief Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: orlando florida Posts: 426	FX1- Component Pass-Thru Hi, Looking for some confirmation from others on whether something works, or does not work(my experience).. When i try to use the camera as a pass thru device..Signal coming from the computer (vegas 6) firewire out to the camera, and then feeding the component out of the camera to a monitor.. I do not get any signal.. if I use composite or S-Video in this same configuration, i do have a signal that is passed to the monitor.. Anyone experience this?? How about on the Z1?? The same ?? Thanks, Mike Moncrief __________________ Mike Moncrief mikemoncrief@gmail.com www.themikemoncrief.com

May 14th, 2005, 02:44 PM	#203
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	According to the manual, the camcorder does not support IEEE in and component out. You have to print your damn project to tape then play your project on tape to use the component out. Very frustrating!

May 15th, 2005, 08:21 PM	#204
Marc Fairorth New Boot Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15	How do I get audio thru headphones in FX1 I've plugged headphones into the headphone jack on the FX1, but can't hear any audio through them. Is there something I need to set that I've overlooked? Thanks!

May 15th, 2005, 09:06 PM	#205
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	Make sure the volume is turned up. Also check your levels and make sure you've actually got an audio signal.

May 16th, 2005, 09:06 AM	#206
Franzino Belgica Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1	This post may be deleted This post may be deleted Last edited by Franzino Belgica; May 16th, 2005 at 11:57 AM.

May 17th, 2005, 06:39 AM	#207
Antony Meadley New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14	Z1 - Ntsc/pal In all the promo material, and also when I phoned Sony to check with them, they say that the Z1 is switchable between NTSC and PAL and that the only difference between the different models (Z1E, Z1U, Z1J, etc) is the power lead and the language of the manuals and menus. However, now that I have bought a Z1U, the manual explicitly states that it will only output NTSC. Is the manual wrong or are Sony misleading people???

May 17th, 2005, 07:02 AM	#208
Colvin Eccleston Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 93	The manual isn't great. Check your settings menues and see how you can set it up. My z1 e can shoot pal/ntsc so yours should be able to too. It is the fx1 that is either or.

May 17th, 2005, 10:51 AM	#209
Maurizio Panella Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Reggio Emilia Italy Posts: 63	Sony portable HD DU1 Hi all,I use a 170 with Du1 and I'm really glad about it.I'd like to know if is possible to use the same portable hd with Z1 without problems. Thanks in advance. Maurizio,Italy.

May 19th, 2005, 12:03 PM	#210
Whit Wales New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18	Mixing pd-170 and Z1 Have a friend who is working on a documentary and has been shooting with a pd-170. She would like me to shoot some b-roll for her in my part of the country. Mostly outdoors and/or controlled lighting. Anyone had any experience in mixing these two cameras. How hard are they to match up? Thanks, Whit