Test: FX1 v. XL2 v. Varicam v. F750 at DVinfo.net

Gabor Lacza · September 11th, 2004, 07:53 AM

I read this test elsewhere...

I am in Amsterdam, IBT Show, Sony give us PAL FX1 for one day but stay with us and guarded it with two men, but help us. Sorry for my English not perfect.

Test:

1. XL2 16:9 progressive, 480p25, new Canon zoom, also test in 50i

2. FX1 1080i50, Zeiss zoom built in

3. same but deinterlace and slowed to 1080p25

4. Varicam 720p60 with Zeiss prime lenses

5. Same but downconvert to 720p25

6. F750 1080p25, Fujinon HD zoom

After the shooting with lot of light we have large theater with special expensive digital cinema projector and we test. We mark result with 2.5% increment and find this:

F750 excellent quality, no grain, look almost like 70 mm film, look very sharp, no resolution of film but no grain make look sharp almost like 70 mm. We give 100% mark. Maybe if we do film out to 35 mm and project with optical projector the quality lower, did not test this.

Varicam 25p look good but no perfect. The color richer than F750 but overall image worse sharpness but look still sharp, no grain, look sharp almost like 35 mm. We give 62.5% mark.

Varicam 60p look amazing, when moving image fast, it gives no motion artifacts like 25 or 24p. We give 65% mark.

Sony FX1 25p look good, look sharp but no perfect; the Varicam 25p look better. Still I say it looks sharp close to 35 mm film. But on moving fast image the picture is not too good. We give 57.5% mark.

FX1 50i look better, give 62.5% mark.

Canon XL2 look OK but too many color fringe. maybe not very good lens. Look sharp like 16 mm film but the color fringe is a problem. Give 32.5% mark

Also test the XL2 in 50i, give 22.5% mark.

Wanted to test the F900H, but did not have, but the quality similar to F750.

Wanted also test DVX but did not have.

We think that the result showes that the Sony FX1 is OK for digital cinema production and show on a large screen. We recommend digital projection and as the best digital projection in 50i, or 60i in America but well converted image to 25p or 24p look OK too.

This camera has some nice controls. We like. It makes true cinema production affortabled.

I hope this help.

Dr. Ing. Erich Henlein

John Jay · September 11th, 2004, 10:43 AM

this confirms what I have seen on the FX1 - fast motion = poor picture, everything else is fine

~expect the FX1 to be filed under 'mosquito noise' - shame because I wanted this to be the one!

~If they can up the bandwidth at the expense of say 1/2 hour tape capacity they would surely have a winner

Ken Hodson · September 11th, 2004, 01:59 PM

"1. XL2 16:9 progressive, 480p25, new Canon zoom, also test in 50i"

Shouldn't that be 576p25?

Steve Crisdale · September 11th, 2004, 07:07 PM

Interesting that Sony had that sort of setup for quality testing.....

I would have thought a large HDTV would have been their display device of choice for such a 'shoot-out'.....unless they are planning to pitch the FX1 to a far broader market.

Still.....if I'm reading the 'test' scores correctly, the reviewer gives the FX1 the same score in 50i mode as the Varicam at 25p.

Shouldn't that be read as an endorsement of the FX1's image quality, when so many have 'panned' the HD10's output in comparison to the Varicam?

Michael Pappas · June 3rd, 2005, 03:55 PM

You better believe it is a major endorsement. I have read some say that the HVX200 will be like a SDX900 but no where near the Varicam. So if the FX1/Z1u is that close to a varicam. That is alot to be said about the FX1/Z1u. Also 50I is at 12GOP which is better.

GREAT REPORT!

<<<<<Shouldn't that be read as an endorsement of the FX1's image quality, when so many have 'panned' the HD10's output in comparison to the Varicam?[/QUOTE]

Radek Svoboda · June 6th, 2005, 04:20 PM

The Panasonic HVX200 should be better than Sony Z1 but will not have true 1080p because its ADC only outputs 1080i and 720p, from that 1080p will have to interpolated. No true 1080p just like Z1 has no true 1080p, only interpolated via CF25.

Radek

Shannon Rawls · June 8th, 2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radek Svoboda

The Panasonic HVX200 should be better than Sony Z1 but will not have true 1080p because its ADC only outputs 1080i and 720p, from that 1080p will have to interpolated. No true 1080p just like Z1 has no true 1080p, only interpolated via CF25.

Radek

Wait a minute...lemme get this straight.

Even though the chips are progressive.....because the ADC only outputs 1080i it will have to interpolate the footage the same way sony hdv does in Cineframe mode?

Hmmmm, sounds fishy. Panasonic is smarter then that....gotta be.

How do you know it only outputs 1080i at the ADC? How do you know it doesnt have big fat 1080p chips and the ADC progessively outputs the fotage with a pulldown to an interlaced stream....same as my dvx100a does?

curious

- Shannon W. Rawls

Dylan Pank · June 8th, 2005, 10:43 AM

The component outputs will put out 1080i but with a 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown, just like the DVX100, the reason being that there is no 23.976 1080p format DVCproHD.

In one sense you could CLAIM that it's not true 24p, but it's as close to 24p as the DVX produces, and therefore a lot closer than the FX1/Z1 produces in terms of accurate 24p.

When recording to P2 in 720p mode, absolutely it will be 24p.

September 11th, 2004, 07:53 AM	#1
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Test: FX1 v. XL2 v. Varicam v. F750 I read this test elsewhere... I am in Amsterdam, IBT Show, Sony give us PAL FX1 for one day but stay with us and guarded it with two men, but help us. Sorry for my English not perfect. Test: 1. XL2 16:9 progressive, 480p25, new Canon zoom, also test in 50i 2. FX1 1080i50, Zeiss zoom built in 3. same but deinterlace and slowed to 1080p25 4. Varicam 720p60 with Zeiss prime lenses 5. Same but downconvert to 720p25 6. F750 1080p25, Fujinon HD zoom After the shooting with lot of light we have large theater with special expensive digital cinema projector and we test. We mark result with 2.5% increment and find this: F750 excellent quality, no grain, look almost like 70 mm film, look very sharp, no resolution of film but no grain make look sharp almost like 70 mm. We give 100% mark. Maybe if we do film out to 35 mm and project with optical projector the quality lower, did not test this. Varicam 25p look good but no perfect. The color richer than F750 but overall image worse sharpness but look still sharp, no grain, look sharp almost like 35 mm. We give 62.5% mark. Varicam 60p look amazing, when moving image fast, it gives no motion artifacts like 25 or 24p. We give 65% mark. Sony FX1 25p look good, look sharp but no perfect; the Varicam 25p look better. Still I say it looks sharp close to 35 mm film. But on moving fast image the picture is not too good. We give 57.5% mark. FX1 50i look better, give 62.5% mark. Canon XL2 look OK but too many color fringe. maybe not very good lens. Look sharp like 16 mm film but the color fringe is a problem. Give 32.5% mark Also test the XL2 in 50i, give 22.5% mark. Wanted to test the F900H, but did not have, but the quality similar to F750. Wanted also test DVX but did not have. We think that the result showes that the Sony FX1 is OK for digital cinema production and show on a large screen. We recommend digital projection and as the best digital projection in 50i, or 60i in America but well converted image to 25p or 24p look OK too. This camera has some nice controls. We like. It makes true cinema production affortabled. I hope this help. Dr. Ing. Erich Henlein

September 11th, 2004, 10:43 AM	#2
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	this confirms what I have seen on the FX1 - fast motion = poor picture, everything else is fine ~expect the FX1 to be filed under 'mosquito noise' - shame because I wanted this to be the one! ~If they can up the bandwidth at the expense of say 1/2 hour tape capacity they would surely have a winner __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 11th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#3
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"1. XL2 16:9 progressive, 480p25, new Canon zoom, also test in 50i" Shouldn't that be 576p25? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

September 11th, 2004, 07:07 PM	#4
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	Interesting that Sony had that sort of setup for quality testing..... I would have thought a large HDTV would have been their display device of choice for such a 'shoot-out'.....unless they are planning to pitch the FX1 to a far broader market. Still.....if I'm reading the 'test' scores correctly, the reviewer gives the FX1 the same score in 50i mode as the Varicam at 25p. Shouldn't that be read as an endorsement of the FX1's image quality, when so many have 'panned' the HD10's output in comparison to the Varicam?

June 3rd, 2005, 03:55 PM	#5
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	You better believe it is a major endorsement. I have read some say that the HVX200 will be like a SDX900 but no where near the Varicam. So if the FX1/Z1u is that close to a varicam. That is alot to be said about the FX1/Z1u. Also 50I is at 12GOP which is better. GREAT REPORT! <<<<<Shouldn't that be read as an endorsement of the FX1's image quality, when so many have 'panned' the HD10's output in comparison to the Varicam?[/QUOTE]

June 6th, 2005, 04:20 PM	#6
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	The Panasonic HVX200 should be better than Sony Z1 but will not have true 1080p because its ADC only outputs 1080i and 720p, from that 1080p will have to interpolated. No true 1080p just like Z1 has no true 1080p, only interpolated via CF25. Radek

June 8th, 2005, 10:43 AM	#8
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	The component outputs will put out 1080i but with a 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown, just like the DVX100, the reason being that there is no 23.976 1080p format DVCproHD. In one sense you could CLAIM that it's not true 24p, but it's as close to 24p as the DVX produces, and therefore a lot closer than the FX1/Z1 produces in terms of accurate 24p. When recording to P2 in 720p mode, absolutely it will be 24p.