Sony HDV Handycam DSR 0000

Tommy Haupfear · March 19th, 2004, 07:27 PM

Quote:

A guy on another forum has put up a link with the original hi-rez pic.

Well almost the original. I had to tone it down to 800k or so as the original was almost 3MB.

Boyd Ostroff · March 19th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Elsewhere someone has posted another photo of the unit displayed at ceBIT. Interestingly, it doesn't have the "3 CCD" emblem on the lens barrel...

Marco Leavitt · March 19th, 2004, 07:32 PM

Yeah, but 16 mm looks great. Probably much better than even this camcorder is cabable of. In any case, I can't afford 16 mm either. I'm just saying, it's thrown my plans completely out of whack. For the short term, all we can do is wait and see. Who knows if this camcorder is even going get released this year. Good point about the HD10. They're about to get really cheap.

Heath McKnight · March 19th, 2004, 07:53 PM

Marco,

I understand budgets are tough, but as we always say, buy what you can afford! The HD10 is still pretty cheap right now.

heath

Ken Hodson · March 20th, 2004, 12:10 AM

I don't see the HD10 as suddenly getting cheap. It has no other HDV cam to compete with, untill that time, why would they lower the price? I imagine there was a limited number produced, of which they will replace with the "updated"HD10 when stalk is depleted. Sometime early summer is my guess, as I believe they will announce this "updated"HD10" at NAB. I didn't see XL1 or DVX100 get derastically cheap once the ,s and a, models were announced.
Ken

Nick Kerpchar · March 20th, 2004, 06:20 AM

Camcorderinfo has the picture of the proposed Sony HD as well as a short article. The article title states that the camera will have 3 CCDs.

If nothing else, at least all this speculation helps build-up a little more excitement for NAB this year. Last year, excitement going into NAB was pretty flat and not without good reason. Nothing big in the prosumer market was unveiled as I recall.

Happy dreams gentlement and ladies. Nick

Chris Hurd · March 20th, 2004, 09:19 AM

Here's a couple of larger, better pics. One of 'em was re-sized by Tommy:

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/sonyhdv1.jpg

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/sonyhdv2.jpg

Tommy -- can you email the original 3mb image to me please? Thanks,

Heath McKnight · March 20th, 2004, 01:48 PM

Thanks, Chris! now we need a pic of the JVC 3 ccd camera.

heath

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 20th, 2004, 02:42 PM

> Sony would never agree to fewer minutes and better quality.
> Who needs better quality and more editing lattitude when you
> can get a few more minutes per tape?

Jjajaja. You mean you did not notice that they give us less time with the *same* quality with DVCAM? :D

Now, as I mentioned months ago, it is highly unlikely that they can get professionally acceptable 1440x1080 into 25Mbps or less (unless maybe at 15fps or something like that), so I think the Sony prototype is a consumer model and it is likely that we will have 30 or 40 minute tapes with a higher data rate for the pro model. It would not make much sense to have 3 CCDs and then lose so much to compression. Bot it still makes sense for the high-end consumer who will not be doing fancy stuff like color correction.

Filip Kovcin · March 21st, 2004, 04:08 AM

any info about european frame rates on this camera?
25p?

maybe links?

thanks,

filip

Chris Gordon · March 21st, 2004, 05:12 AM

..will have to be seriously de-tuned, as not to compete with Sony's higher end HD cameras.

3CCDs, manual controls, ND filters, variable audio inputs etc... Seems too good to be true. Maybe Sony will make up for it with the frame rate. Maybe 15 frames interlaced??

I'm trying to figure out what the "catch" is.

-Chris Gordon

Frederic Lumiere · March 21st, 2004, 09:26 AM

Chris,

The list of differences between the F900 series and this PD???? HDV version would be too long to describe. It don't think the HDV model poses any risk of cannibalizing sales from the high end HD models.

I think however that DV will be completely phased out ultimately. As a matter of fact, I am certain of it.

Boyd Ostroff · March 21st, 2004, 09:38 AM

This reminds me of Adam Wilt's column in the April issue of DV magazine in which he discusses the HD-10U and HDV:

Quote:

Remember when DV came out? Recall how horrible it was supposed to be? Yet it turned out to be mostly harmless; the images were (and are) nice - better than they should have been for the price and the amount of compression.

HDV looks to repeat that history: Even though the pictures are compressed to within an inch of their lives, they look a lot better than they have any right to. No, they are unlikely to be th equal of DVCPROHD images, nor HD D-5 images of the same resolution, but - like DV in the SD world - they may very well turn out to be "good enough."

Frederic Lumiere · March 21st, 2004, 09:48 AM

Good point Boyd,

One thing to keep in mind. HDV isn't compressed more than broadcast digital television in SD or HD. The only difference is that the compression occurs during acquisition.

I think that a 3CCD HDV Camera like Sony's or JVC's new model will do wonders for the format.

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 21st, 2004, 03:17 PM

> One thing to keep in mind. HDV isn't compressed more
> than broadcast digital television in SD or HD. The only
> difference is that the compression occurs during acquisition.

That is only partially correct. There is also an important resolution difference. Even though the camera has 'pro' controls, it pours it's output into a format without full HD resolution (the high quality HD spec is 1920x1080, not 1440x1080). This is like what happened years ago, with the best Hi8 gear, sure it had all the manual controls so you could make the best of it, but there was no way Hi8 gear could compete (even had it had the same optics and sensors) to Betacam SP.

I agree that HDV is a nice format and the image quality will most likely surpass that of standard definition DV, but HDV has been designed from the ground up as a consumer solution. So was DV, I think when they designed DV they did not suspect it would cannibalize so much pro acquisition the way it did. So now they are taking extra steps to make sure the consumer gear can never be as good as the full high-quality spec. No matter how well your HDV footage is aquired, it will always have less resolution than your 1920x1080 HDTV.

I'll bet there will be HDVCAM or something like that with the full res and a wider data rate for pro's, but that will happen very gradually, after they sell each and every one of us 'semi-pro' guys some 17-25Mbps HDV equipment and have milked all 'legacy' HD's milk (DVPROHD, D9HD, HDCAM, HD-D5, CineAlta). By the time that happens, it might not be MPEG2-based. MPEG4 is a likely candidate.

And then by the time we are all feeling comfortable with HD crammed into de MiniDV form-factor, they will have us throw all our gear away and switch to optical disks, removable hard disks or solid state memory. Oh well...

March 19th, 2004, 07:53 PM	#79
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Marco, I understand budgets are tough, but as we always say, buy what you can afford! The HD10 is still pretty cheap right now. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 20th, 2004, 12:10 AM	#80
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I don't see the HD10 as suddenly getting cheap. It has no other HDV cam to compete with, untill that time, why would they lower the price? I imagine there was a limited number produced, of which they will replace with the "updated"HD10 when stalk is depleted. Sometime early summer is my guess, as I believe they will announce this "updated"HD10" at NAB. I didn't see XL1 or DVX100 get derastically cheap once the ,s and a, models were announced. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

March 20th, 2004, 09:19 AM	#82
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Here's a couple of larger, better pics. One of 'em was re-sized by Tommy: http://www.dvinfo.net/media/sonyhdv1.jpg http://www.dvinfo.net/media/sonyhdv2.jpg Tommy -- can you email the original 3mb image to me please? Thanks, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 20th, 2004, 01:48 PM	#83
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks, Chris! now we need a pic of the JVC 3 ccd camera. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 20th, 2004, 02:42 PM	#84
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> Sony would never agree to fewer minutes and better quality. > Who needs better quality and more editing lattitude when you > can get a few more minutes per tape? Jjajaja. You mean you did not notice that they give us less time with the same quality with DVCAM? :D Now, as I mentioned months ago, it is highly unlikely that they can get professionally acceptable 1440x1080 into 25Mbps or less (unless maybe at 15fps or something like that), so I think the Sony prototype is a consumer model and it is likely that we will have 30 or 40 minute tapes with a higher data rate for the pro model. It would not make much sense to have 3 CCDs and then lose so much to compression. Bot it still makes sense for the high-end consumer who will not be doing fancy stuff like color correction. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 19th, 2004, 07:31 PM	#77
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Elsewhere someone has posted another photo of the unit displayed at ceBIT. Interestingly, it doesn't have the "3 CCD" emblem on the lens barrel...

March 19th, 2004, 07:32 PM	#78
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Yeah, but 16 mm looks great. Probably much better than even this camcorder is cabable of. In any case, I can't afford 16 mm either. I'm just saying, it's thrown my plans completely out of whack. For the short term, all we can do is wait and see. Who knows if this camcorder is even going get released this year. Good point about the HD10. They're about to get really cheap.

March 20th, 2004, 06:20 AM	#81
Nick Kerpchar Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 211	Camcorderinfo has the picture of the proposed Sony HD as well as a short article. The article title states that the camera will have 3 CCDs. If nothing else, at least all this speculation helps build-up a little more excitement for NAB this year. Last year, excitement going into NAB was pretty flat and not without good reason. Nothing big in the prosumer market was unveiled as I recall. Happy dreams gentlement and ladies. Nick

March 21st, 2004, 04:08 AM	#85
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	any info about european frame rates on this camera? 25p? maybe links? thanks, filip

March 21st, 2004, 05:12 AM	#86
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	The Sony camera pictured.... ..will have to be seriously de-tuned, as not to compete with Sony's higher end HD cameras. 3CCDs, manual controls, ND filters, variable audio inputs etc... Seems too good to be true. Maybe Sony will make up for it with the frame rate. Maybe 15 frames interlaced?? I'm trying to figure out what the "catch" is. -Chris Gordon

March 21st, 2004, 09:26 AM	#87
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Chris, The list of differences between the F900 series and this PD???? HDV version would be too long to describe. It don't think the HDV model poses any risk of cannibalizing sales from the high end HD models. I think however that DV will be completely phased out ultimately. As a matter of fact, I am certain of it.

March 21st, 2004, 09:48 AM	#89
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Good point Boyd, One thing to keep in mind. HDV isn't compressed more than broadcast digital television in SD or HD. The only difference is that the compression occurs during acquisition. I think that a 3CCD HDV Camera like Sony's or JVC's new model will do wonders for the format.

March 21st, 2004, 03:17 PM	#90
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> One thing to keep in mind. HDV isn't compressed more > than broadcast digital television in SD or HD. The only > difference is that the compression occurs during acquisition. That is only partially correct. There is also an important resolution difference. Even though the camera has 'pro' controls, it pours it's output into a format without full HD resolution (the high quality HD spec is 1920x1080, not 1440x1080). This is like what happened years ago, with the best Hi8 gear, sure it had all the manual controls so you could make the best of it, but there was no way Hi8 gear could compete (even had it had the same optics and sensors) to Betacam SP. I agree that HDV is a nice format and the image quality will most likely surpass that of standard definition DV, but HDV has been designed from the ground up as a consumer solution. So was DV, I think when they designed DV they did not suspect it would cannibalize so much pro acquisition the way it did. So now they are taking extra steps to make sure the consumer gear can never be as good as the full high-quality spec. No matter how well your HDV footage is aquired, it will always have less resolution than your 1920x1080 HDTV. I'll bet there will be HDVCAM or something like that with the full res and a wider data rate for pro's, but that will happen very gradually, after they sell each and every one of us 'semi-pro' guys some 17-25Mbps HDV equipment and have milked all 'legacy' HD's milk (DVPROHD, D9HD, HDCAM, HD-D5, CineAlta). By the time that happens, it might not be MPEG2-based. MPEG4 is a likely candidate. And then by the time we are all feeling comfortable with HD crammed into de MiniDV form-factor, they will have us throw all our gear away and switch to optical disks, removable hard disks or solid state memory. Oh well... __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.