Z1U vs Z1E at DVinfo.net

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 1st, 2008, 01:04 PM

Hi.
I am looking to buy a Z1U from B&H to be used in Norway and PAL- mode.
As far as I understand there should be no problem in doing this as this camera is switchable PAL/ NTSC.

I have been told that I can`t use the outputs, ie component, in Norway because these output NTSC only on the U- model.

I need these outputs to work as they will be hooked up to my vision- mixer.

Any ideas/ suggestions?

Thanks

Svein Rune

Tom Hardwick · June 1st, 2008, 01:14 PM

There is only one Z1 made as far as I'm aware. The European version comes with a SCART adaptor and that's the only difference I can see. Component will work just fine.

tom.

Boyd Ostroff · June 1st, 2008, 01:53 PM

I don't think you will have any problems using the outputs for PAL, but long ago there was some discussion that the colorspace via the s-video output was different between the E and U versions. These questions arose from a review by Adam Wilt and I have never seen a definitive answer. Nevertheless, I suspect they aren't significant for typical uses. See the following old thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45657

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 2nd, 2008, 10:38 AM

Hi guys. Thanks for the input.

Looks like I am on the safe side.

Boyd. I followed up on that thread. If the camera is the same around the world, why do they put E or U at the end? Does it have to do with warranty?

Is there any reason why I should not buy a Z1? Any limitations you guys know about?

Thanks.

Svein Rune

Boyd Ostroff · June 2nd, 2008, 11:59 AM

Well I think there are some differences like the type of connector provided on the power cable and the SCART which Tom mentions. Maybe the manuals are provided in different languages (mine included Spanish and English versions) and maybe it also identifies a different pricing structure or sales channel?

"Is there any reason why I should not buy a Z1? Any limitations you guys know about?"

Well that's a much bigger question. I think the Z1 was introduced 3 and a half years ago (I got mine exactly 3 years ago). There are a lot of other options now that didn't exist back then. You need to clearly define what you expect from the camera and then see how the Z1 features stack up vs other models.

I am still happy, but it would be a much more difficult choice today IMO.

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM

Boyd. The power cable does not bother me. I have an external battery charger. I don`t use scart either so that`s fine.

Regarding limitations I am thinking of picture quality and especially its low light capabilities. The camera has been a bestseller for Sony so I guess it still holds up very well. I do not need this camera to have external lenses or 25 p. I need to shoot good, clean pictures and get good, clean audio. I understand that the lens is quite good too.

The camera will be used in all kinds of situations as I work for both TV and as a documentarist shooting live events and concerts as well.

I am thinking that new cameras come out so fast now, that we can`t keep up anymore. Buying the previous model seems like a good way of saving some money if one doesn`t need the new features.

New technology is alwys more expensive and we, the customers, end up paying for it.

Tom Hardwick · June 4th, 2008, 12:51 AM

Good thinking. The out-going model is usually available at a very attractive price and the bugs have been sorted. The Z1 has indeed been a Sony best seller, and as far as I can see was introduced without hic-ups - inlike say the original DVX100, V1, XL1, EX1 and so on.

It's not in the PD170 low-light class, but then its CCDs are the same size yet contain 4x the number of pixels on each. The laws of light come into play.

You say you do not need this camera to have external lenses or 25 p. you need to shoot good, clean pictures and get good, clean audio. Then the Z1 will suit you as well as it's suited Boyd and me. The nut behind the shutter has much more bearing on the film than the inanimate 2 kg lump of camera.

tom.

Hans Ledel · June 4th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Just remember that if you buy your cam outside Europe, you do not get 2 year "Silver Support" .

You can read about here

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowC...veContext=true

Vänliga Hälsningar

Hans

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 11th, 2008, 08:13 AM

Tom: How do you think it holds up in low light? Sometimes, and I guesss I am not alone, I am not able to control the lighting conditions. Is this a problem?

And pardon me for not understanding the sentence: The nut behind the shutter has much more bearing on the film than the inanimate 2 kg lump of camera. What do you mean?

Hans: You are right, but the price attracts me more I guess.
Hyggelig med en svenske på forumet!

Svein Rune

Tom Hardwick · June 11th, 2008, 08:43 AM

The 'nut behind the shutter' is you, the cameraman. It's you who makes the film, the camera's just a fast-acting, accurate, stupid idiot. It will focus on the wrong things, expose for the wrong things - it waits for you to point it, compose, frame, move, set levels and pull the trigger.

The Z1's a good stop and a half slower than the PD170 and more like two stops at full tele. But then again its gain amplifiers are smooth and quiet, and if you're called on to use them, you can without many worries.

tom.

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 11th, 2008, 09:19 AM

Aha. Excellent, thank you for clearing that up. Very good explanation indeed. Thanks.

Svein Rune

Boyd Ostroff · June 11th, 2008, 07:22 PM

Svein, see the following comments about low light: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123283

Tom was paraphrasing an old joke which says, "the biggest problem with cars is the nut behind the wheel". It's a play on the word "nut", which can mean either a machine part, or a crazy person. :-)

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 20th, 2008, 07:12 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I ordered a Z1 today with a wideangle lens. I hope I will be happy with it and that it works well with Final Cut Pro.

Svein Rune

Tom Hardwick · June 20th, 2008, 07:56 AM

You will and it will. The Z1 has proved to be war-zone tough, a camera that excelles at nothing but does everything that's asked of it, every time. What wideangle did you order in the end?

Svein Rune Skilnand · June 20th, 2008, 08:02 AM

It is called Sony VCLHG0762. I hope it is OK. I wanted a full zoom through lens and was told it was.

Now I am looking forward to go out and shoot after spending a lot of time researching. Thank you for all your help. In the end that was actually the deciding factor. There is no better advice than that coming from someone who has already put the camera through its paces.

Thank you.

Svein Rune

June 1st, 2008, 01:04 PM	#1
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Z1U vs Z1E Hi. I am looking to buy a Z1U from B&H to be used in Norway and PAL- mode. As far as I understand there should be no problem in doing this as this camera is switchable PAL/ NTSC. I have been told that I can`t use the outputs, ie component, in Norway because these output NTSC only on the U- model. I need these outputs to work as they will be hooked up to my vision- mixer. Any ideas/ suggestions? Thanks Svein Rune

June 4th, 2008, 02:15 PM	#8
Hans Ledel Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 184	Just remember that if you buy your cam outside Europe, you do not get 2 year "Silver Support" . You can read about here http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowC...veContext=true Vänliga Hälsningar Hans __________________ Remember, that English is my second language.

June 1st, 2008, 01:14 PM	#2
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	There is only one Z1 made as far as I'm aware. The European version comes with a SCART adaptor and that's the only difference I can see. Component will work just fine. tom.

June 1st, 2008, 01:53 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I don't think you will have any problems using the outputs for PAL, but long ago there was some discussion that the colorspace via the s-video output was different between the E and U versions. These questions arose from a review by Adam Wilt and I have never seen a definitive answer. Nevertheless, I suspect they aren't significant for typical uses. See the following old thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45657

June 2nd, 2008, 10:38 AM	#4
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Hi guys. Thanks for the input. Looks like I am on the safe side. Boyd. I followed up on that thread. If the camera is the same around the world, why do they put E or U at the end? Does it have to do with warranty? Is there any reason why I should not buy a Z1? Any limitations you guys know about? Thanks. Svein Rune

June 2nd, 2008, 11:59 AM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Well I think there are some differences like the type of connector provided on the power cable and the SCART which Tom mentions. Maybe the manuals are provided in different languages (mine included Spanish and English versions) and maybe it also identifies a different pricing structure or sales channel? "Is there any reason why I should not buy a Z1? Any limitations you guys know about?" Well that's a much bigger question. I think the Z1 was introduced 3 and a half years ago (I got mine exactly 3 years ago). There are a lot of other options now that didn't exist back then. You need to clearly define what you expect from the camera and then see how the Z1 features stack up vs other models. I am still happy, but it would be a much more difficult choice today IMO.

June 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM	#6
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Boyd. The power cable does not bother me. I have an external battery charger. I don`t use scart either so that`s fine. Regarding limitations I am thinking of picture quality and especially its low light capabilities. The camera has been a bestseller for Sony so I guess it still holds up very well. I do not need this camera to have external lenses or 25 p. I need to shoot good, clean pictures and get good, clean audio. I understand that the lens is quite good too. The camera will be used in all kinds of situations as I work for both TV and as a documentarist shooting live events and concerts as well. I am thinking that new cameras come out so fast now, that we can`t keep up anymore. Buying the previous model seems like a good way of saving some money if one doesn`t need the new features. New technology is alwys more expensive and we, the customers, end up paying for it.

June 4th, 2008, 12:51 AM	#7
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Good thinking. The out-going model is usually available at a very attractive price and the bugs have been sorted. The Z1 has indeed been a Sony best seller, and as far as I can see was introduced without hic-ups - inlike say the original DVX100, V1, XL1, EX1 and so on. It's not in the PD170 low-light class, but then its CCDs are the same size yet contain 4x the number of pixels on each. The laws of light come into play. You say you do not need this camera to have external lenses or 25 p. you need to shoot good, clean pictures and get good, clean audio. Then the Z1 will suit you as well as it's suited Boyd and me. The nut behind the shutter has much more bearing on the film than the inanimate 2 kg lump of camera. tom.

June 11th, 2008, 08:13 AM	#9
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Tom: How do you think it holds up in low light? Sometimes, and I guesss I am not alone, I am not able to control the lighting conditions. Is this a problem? And pardon me for not understanding the sentence: The nut behind the shutter has much more bearing on the film than the inanimate 2 kg lump of camera. What do you mean? Hans: You are right, but the price attracts me more I guess. Hyggelig med en svenske på forumet! Svein Rune

June 11th, 2008, 08:43 AM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The 'nut behind the shutter' is you, the cameraman. It's you who makes the film, the camera's just a fast-acting, accurate, stupid idiot. It will focus on the wrong things, expose for the wrong things - it waits for you to point it, compose, frame, move, set levels and pull the trigger. The Z1's a good stop and a half slower than the PD170 and more like two stops at full tele. But then again its gain amplifiers are smooth and quiet, and if you're called on to use them, you can without many worries. tom.

June 11th, 2008, 09:19 AM	#11
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Aha. Excellent, thank you for clearing that up. Very good explanation indeed. Thanks. Svein Rune

June 11th, 2008, 07:22 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Svein, see the following comments about low light: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123283 Tom was paraphrasing an old joke which says, "the biggest problem with cars is the nut behind the wheel". It's a play on the word "nut", which can mean either a machine part, or a crazy person. :-)

June 20th, 2008, 07:12 AM	#13
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	Thanks for the input guys. I ordered a Z1 today with a wideangle lens. I hope I will be happy with it and that it works well with Final Cut Pro. Svein Rune

June 20th, 2008, 07:56 AM	#14
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	You will and it will. The Z1 has proved to be war-zone tough, a camera that excelles at nothing but does everything that's asked of it, every time. What wideangle did you order in the end?

June 20th, 2008, 08:02 AM	#15
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	It is called Sony VCLHG0762. I hope it is OK. I wanted a full zoom through lens and was told it was. Now I am looking forward to go out and shoot after spending a lot of time researching. Thank you for all your help. In the end that was actually the deciding factor. There is no better advice than that coming from someone who has already put the camera through its paces. Thank you. Svein Rune