Recording Audio Gear For FX-1

[Anthony Cipriano]

Hi all! I've owned an FX-1 for almost four years now and have been shooting wedding videos off and on over the years. The problem with the cam is that you only have the 1/8" input and I would like some feedback from owners of
the Beachtek box for additional audio devices and their experience with same and suggestions as to what arrangement I need to pick up both the bride and groom at the altar as well as ambient sound. My plan is to place the FX-1 on the altar toward the back and to the right so it won't be too obvious and shoot the bride's face therefore. I'll be using a VX2100 (with an assistant manning that camera at the back of the church) . I own an Azden WMS 100 Pro lavalier mic as well as a Rode VideoMic. I've read some blogs on this Forum re setting up the inputs of wireless mics and it's very confusing, epecially since the FX-1 doesnt' have multiple inputs! Any suggestions? Thanks for your inputs.

acipriano

[Michael Liebergot]

Anthony, this topic has been discussed a lot here. Try doing a search on the forums.
Also I have 2 FX1s that use with an XLR adapter box. I used to use the Beachtek DXA-FX, but now I use a box by a company called Juicedlink.

Their boxes are much quieter (due to built in pre amps) and also cheaper in price.

Take a look at this post on one of my blogs on the Juicedlink box. Links are provided there as well.

http://lvptools.blogspot.com/2008/04...r-adapter.html

I personally will use 2 cameras for weddings (camera 1 in back of church either in balcony or just off center of the isle (up high) to capture medium wide shots.

Camera 2 is manned by me (first shooting up the isle on the grooms side down low to gte processional. The when bride is handed off I go to a preset tripod on the grooms side to get brides reactions. center camera can get the grooms if they face each other.

I have 2 XLR boxes on both cams, with the rear camera getting feed from priest or alter for readings via wireless and shotgun mic (Rode NTG2) for ambient audio.
My camera has grooms audio via wireless and Rode NTG2 shotgun mic for ambient audio.
I also use digital audio recorders to capture musicians and readings and mix down in post.

[Tom Hardwick]

How on earth do you mix footage shot on the FX1 and VX2100 Anthony? The VX looks very soft when switched into the 16:9 mode, and I've found it doesn't cut at all well into FX1 (SD) footage. Admittedly it's low light performance is eye-wideningly good, but I feel it's time you got another FX1.

tom.

[Anthony Cipriano]

Thanks for the infor on the Juicedink box. I have read reviews on Beachtek equipment and many of them claim that the units break in the first year of use and are noisy in the microphone picking up the clicks when the volume is adjusted. The price of the Juicedink is comparable to, say the DX4 however
$179.00. Have you used a portable recorder like a Zoom or Edirol at the altar to pick up the minister and the couple? If so, have you just set it on "record" and let it run or have it go directly to your camcorder via wireless adapter?
One more question. You mentioned that you placed your camera on the groom side but, how does one get that all important "groom reaction" shot as the bride is walking up the aisle? Cam 1?

Tom....you're probably right about the two cameras conflicting, quality wise but I'll probably be shooting in 4:3 aspect in both situations. Crazy as it may seem, but as I have never been able to remove the image distortion of shooting in 16:9 either in HDV mode or DV mode in editing (using a Roxio program that is) I have alway shot in 4:3 and in SD mode. Unfortunately, I don't have the heavy duty computer equipment yet to render in Adobe or any of the preferred NLEs but until I get a new one, this is the best I can work with. So, to answer your question, no, don't see a problem using both an HDV cam and SD cam since the wedding won't be shot in HDV or 16:9.
I beleive you have a VX2100 and as you know, that low light quality is unrivaled, at least for SD cams. I understand the new Sony HVR-Z7U HDV is great for low light but the cost.....! Thanks for your reply.

Anthony

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Anthony Cipriano

Thanks for the infor on the Juicedink box. I have read reviews on Beachtek equipment and many of them claim that the units break in the first year of use and are noisy in the microphone picking up the clicks when the volume is adjusted. The price of the Juicedink is comparable to, say the DX4 however
$179.00. Have you used a portable recorder like a Zoom or Edirol at the altar to pick up the minister and the couple? If so, have you just set it on "record" and let it run or have it go directly to your camcorder via wireless adapter?
One more question. You mentioned that you placed your camera on the groom side but, how does one get that all important "groom reaction" shot as the bride is walking up the aisle? Cam 1?

I do use several recorders (Zoom H2, Edirol R09, Marantz PMD620 and Edirol R-44).
As for the grooms reaction to the bride. I am right in front of him down low shooting up the isle handheld (using a DVMulti Rig Pro support). I simply turn around and get his reaction then shoot up the isle again to get the rest of the bride coming down the isle. Once the bride is handed off, then I go to the preset tripod for the reminder of the ceremony. But sometimes (especially for outside services) I might stay all handheld. I can get real steady shots with the DVMulti Rig.

[Tom Hardwick]

I don't see where you live and work Anthony, but here in the UK any couple that can afford a wedding videographer as well as a stills photographer doesn't come home from an expensive honeymoon and switch on an old 4:3 CRT.

So I'm somewhat surprised when I read that people are still shooting weddings in 4:3, unless the couple are adept with their plasma's remote and know how to stretch, pull, move and distort the 4:3 picture to fill their 16:9 screen. SD still rules of course, because folk have seen how good upscaling DVD players can be.

But what really confuses me about your post is your talk of the 'image distortion when shooting 16:9'. Er? You can view 16:9 as a masked down 4:3 rectangle, so how does doing this this add distortion?

tom.

[Anthony Cipriano]

All me to explain Tom. First, I live in the U.S. and, yes, most people are purchasing widescreen tvs now in HD so they can enjoy that wonderful effect. My problem is that when shooting in 16:9 widescreen and in HD on the FX-1 and then editing on the Roxio NLE, the image ultimately comes out as "squatty" or compressed in the downcovert process. I have gone on blogs to see if there was some way to adjust this on the camera but, no. One suggestion was to use Adobe Premiere where you can adjust the image in post. That's why I have been shooting in 4:3 Tom. otherwise, I agree with you, 16:9 is the way to go. Thanks for your input.

Anthony

[Anthony Cipriano]

Michael. Thank you for your comments on your position when shooting groom reaction and bridal party. I confess that I'm at a loss as to where to stand to do this and be able to cross the aisle to go to the tripod setup to shoot the rest of the wedding. One concern I have is, getting in the way of the bridal party and being obvious to the guests. Also, where do you "park" your Edirol or Zoom during the ceremony? Is it on the minister's lecturn? Thank you.

Anthony

[Tom Hardwick]

Anthony, why not shoot 16:9 HDV footage in the FX1 and when replaying that tape into the computer simply downconvert in camera? Does Roxio still muck with that SD footage?

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Anthony Cipriano

Michael. Thank you for your comments on your position when shooting groom reaction and bridal party. I confess that I'm at a loss as to where to stand to do this and be able to cross the aisle to go to the tripod setup to shoot the rest of the wedding. One concern I have is, getting in the way of the bridal party and being obvious to the guests. Also, where do you "park" your Edirol or Zoom during the ceremony? Is it on the minister's lecturn? Thank you.

Anthony

Anthony, I am parked on the grooms side (shooting up the isle, down low as not to block the grooms view). My preset tripod is also on the grooms side (to get the brides reactions). When the bride and FOB is almost to the end of the isle (I stand up) and move backwards to get the her being handed off to the groom. Then I move to the preset tripod for the remainder of the service. So there's no crossing in front of the alter or bridal party.
Sometimes (mainly for outdoor services) I might stay all handheld, as I get very steady shots with my DVMulti Rig, and being outdoors, have freedom to move around if desired.

As for my recorders...one unit (R09 or PMD620) is on the lectern for readings using the onboard mics.
Musicians will be recorded with the Zoom H2 and built in mics (2CH or 4CH) recording to record from both sides of the mic sing all 4 mic elements. Or if I ahve time I might use a 4-track Edirol R-44 recorder and mic accordingly. Although I usually only use this etup for live bands at a reception.

The remaining unit (R09 or PMD620) might be used with a lav on the priest or on the groom (for double micing with wireless).

I generally only use my wireless for the grooms vows or for reference sync audio that will be cued up with the recorder audio in post.

[Anthony Cipriano]

Tom. The problem I have had is in downloading the video using that Roxio 7.5 program and the inability to change the aspect ration to widescreen. That's what causes the problem resulting in a "squished" look to the video in the final product. I'm going to rummage through this program to see if I can change the aspect and that would probably take care of the problem and I can at last record EVERYTHING in HDV as the camera was designed to do!
The FX-1 is still around $3,000.00 here in the States so purchasing a second camera that appears to be in the process of being replaced by that beautiful HVR 27U is not an option. Still, the VX2100, that old SD "standby" is selling for $2198.00 at B & Photo and other places for at least $2600.00! Amazing but a testament to its legendary low light capabilities. Thanks for the advice.

Tony

[Anthony Cipriano]

Thanks Mike for the description of you and your camera. My question is, when shooting the groom from his position and then down the aisle, where are you exactly all this time...standing in front of him in the middle of the aisle? I'm trying to visualize your placement. The DVRig is something I'm seriously going to be looking at. I imagine for the bride and groom dance and in the course of the reception, it must come in very handy as a stable platform. How good is it in simulating Steadicam shots? As for the portable recorder devices, do you have any favorite volume setting since you're not monitoring them during the ceremony (I presume)? In the upcoming wedding, there will be a solo violinist. Can you suggest where to "park" a Zoom recorder to pick up the sound? Do you have a favorite between the Edirol and the Zoom? I'm looking at either one for purchase. Thanks for your input!

Anthony

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Anthony Cipriano

Thanks Mike for the description of you and your camera. My question is, when shooting the groom from his position and then down the aisle, where are you exactly all this time...standing in front of him in the middle of the aisle? I'm trying to visualize your placement. The DVRig is something I'm seriously going to be looking at. I imagine for the bride and groom dance and in the course of the reception, it must come in very handy as a stable platform. How good is it in simulating Steadicam shots? As for the portable recorder devices, do you have any favorite volume setting since you're not monitoring them during the ceremony (I presume)? In the upcoming wedding, there will be a solo violinist. Can you suggest where to "park" a Zoom recorder to pick up the sound? Do you have a favorite between the Edirol and the Zoom? I'm looking at either one for purchase. Thanks for your input!

Anthony

Anthony, I place myself in front of the groom down low (so not to block his view) and hugging the isle on his side. Then I shoot up the isle and get a nice angled frame using the flowers along the isle. I don't stand in the middle of the isle because people have to walk by me. Also I hug the isle and am down low, so my 2nd camera in the back or in the balcony doesn't really pick me up, as I hide in the picture and don't stand out as much.

The DVMulti Rig is by far the most versatile support piece out there. It has no equal. It can shoot in any position and has a 2 section support pod that takes the stress off of your back and shoulders and places it on your hips. I shoot with it ALL day long using the 2 section support pod in Fig Rig mode (handles up), handheld (handles down), shoulder mode (shoulder supported), low mode (the shoulder support turns into an extended handle so you can get low profile shooting with your camera upright). I can boo dutch etc, with it with no effort at all. The only thing that it can't do great is get booming shots over a crowd like you can do with an extended (over the crowd) monopod. Also, its not a Steadican/Glidecam, so your not going to get those long floating or running shots like you can get with a Glidecam. But you can get great moving camera shots with it, as well as some good walking shots with it (with a little walking practice).

As for the Zoom H2 recorder< set it on M (medium) gain and a setting of 106 for recording input. I place it directly in front of the musicians or in the middle of them and record in either 2 channel (Stereo from both sides of the mic) or 4 channel (All 4 mic elements separately from both sides of the mic).

I don't have a favorite do everything recorder, as they all do some things great, some not so great. I ONLY use the Zoom H2 for its built in mics as its 1/8 mic and line inputs are weak and noisy.

The R09 has good built in mics, but not nearly as versatile as the Zoom, but it does everything else better, as it has better pre amps (so its quieter with external mics and line in), and has great manual controls, and better battery run times.
I have been using a Marantz PMD620 lately and love ti even more than the R09, as it has a better build quality, better pre amps, and more adjustable manual controls (in the menu for 3 presets). There is a new R09HR that is coming out that seems to have fixed some of the flaws in the original R09 which I have, so its worth a look for you as well. For an all around recorder, I would say the R09HR or PMD620. Even better would be a Zoom H2 and one of the other recorders.

Then there's the new Edirol R-44 which I just received (records to SD card via 4 separate channels of audio mix 4 balanced XLR inputs). This replaced my older R4 which I used for live sound recording of band and live recitals via individual mics and board feeds. I had a Zoom H2 that I used (very successfully) the same way as the R4/R-44, but I needed more than 2 inputs of audio.

If you look on my main Blog page http://lvptools.blogspot.com/ you will see info on the Zoom H2 and Edirol R09 with some samples.

[Anthony Cipriano]

Michael..sorry to get back to you so late but was out of town for over a week. Thanks for your helfpul tips on camera position and the use of the MultiRig. I have to look into getting one of those units before the next wedding to video. My camera position is usually on the groom's side mounted on a tripod but I can see the advantages of being on the "floor" so to speak with your camera, hand-held as it wered to get both bride and groom in action. It's got to be a great shot! You mentioned that you were using 2 cameras and that one of them is in the back on the balcony or thereabouts.
In this upcoming wedding, the setting is a little chapel with no balcony and a raised dais in front of the congregation. I can email you some photos of the interior so you can see what I'm talking about. In any event, where do you position your second camera if you don't have a balcony? I did a 2 shot of the wedding processional of a wedding a while back where a friend was shooting from a balcony that ran from front to back along the sides. He got some great shots of the wedding processional but sadly, that's not the case in most weddings. I'm looking at the Zoom as well and thank you for that piece on the Juicedink. It's definately worth a look! Thanks for your kind suggestions and sorry again for not responding sooner.

Anthony

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Anthony Cipriano

Michael..sorry to get back to you so late but was out of town for over a week. Thanks for your helfpul tips on camera position and the use of the MultiRig. I have to look into getting one of those units before the next wedding to video. My camera position is usually on the groom's side mounted on a tripod but I can see the advantages of being on the "floor" so to speak with your camera, hand-held as it wered to get both bride and groom in action. It's got to be a great shot! You mentioned that you were using 2 cameras and that one of them is in the back on the balcony or thereabouts.
In this upcoming wedding, the setting is a little chapel with no balcony and a raised dais in front of the congregation. I can email you some photos of the interior so you can see what I'm talking about. In any event, where do you position your second camera if you don't have a balcony? I did a 2 shot of the wedding processional of a wedding a while back where a friend was shooting from a balcony that ran from front to back along the sides. He got some great shots of the wedding processional but sadly, that's not the case in most weddings. I'm looking at the Zoom as well and thank you for that piece on the Juicedink. It's definately worth a look! Thanks for your kind suggestions and sorry again for not responding sooner.

Anthony

Anthony, I shoot from the balcony from time to time. I ove small chapels with wrap around balconies, becasue you can get all of your shots unobtrusive.
But honestly prefer shooting from the floor, as it's on the same visual plane as the couple and the front camera. I woudl normally shoot from the back of the aisle, behind the last row of pews and position my tripod up as high as possible (a light stand works great here as well as it gets even higher than a tripod) and shoot from that position for pretty much the entire service. I position the tripod just right or left of the aisle (so it's hugging the pew) and have the camera follow the processional from the entrance pan slightly and down the aisle. I have the front shot going up the aisle, so the rear camera is mainly for the processionals entrance into the ceremony. For the bride, the rear camera gets her entrance and follows her down the aisle. once the bride is handed off I will instruct the rear camera operator to zoom in for closeup/medium shots for most of the service.

My next shoot I'm going to experiment with another setup. Use 4 preset tripods (all up high), one in rear center, one up front on grooms side (for me) and another on the brides side 3/4 of the way up the aisle and one directly across from my front tripod for vows). Once the processional starts I will be in my normal position up front (but on the brides side, then move across to grooms side to go to tripod once bride is handed off), camera 2 will film on tripod 3 (on the brides side for side shots of processional). Once the bride is handed off and before everyone sits down, camera 2 moves from the side position to the rear position for the service. Once the groom starts to say his his vows, camera 2 moves to tripod 4 to shoot grooms reactions as the bride recites her vows. Camera stays up here for vows and rings, then moves back to rear tripod for the remainder of the service and departure up the aisle.

Either go with this setup of just use 3 tripods, with rear tripod shooting from the same position until vows then move up front, then back to the rear for the departure up the aisle. So in this instance I would be shooting from 3 positions instead of 4. The idea is to get more angles in order to seem like more cameras were involved.

Either way I mainly use camera in rear for cutaways and entrance and exit shots. But keep the camera up high to avoid anyone from getting in the way. Having the extra tripod setup helps I case you need to move positions for those surprises that can happen during the service. Like the ceremony opening changing order from the rehearsal, which happened to me a few months back and f'ed up my opening. Thus me installing the extra tripods if needed. I'm not going to get stuck during a shoot again. =)