Lapel Mics Low Level. at DVinfo.net

Dugi Barr · March 4th, 2008, 03:47 AM

When I record audio with my Sennheiser 416 and Level set to 5, everything is fine, nice peaks, no clipping. When I record with a Tram Lapel mic and a Sennheiser ECM-77B Lapel mic, Level set to 10 everything is not fine. Very low level and barely discernible peaks on timeline.
Other Audi settings are..
Audio Output = 2Vrms
Mode = 48k
Input Level = Mic
Input Trim = 0db
The settings remain constant for all mics and both lapel mics have fresh batteries. Is there another audio setting somewhere I've missed?

John M. McCloskey · March 4th, 2008, 08:41 AM

What kind of receiver /transmitter are you using?

Dugi Barr · March 4th, 2008, 10:43 AM

They're hard wired John. Not radio mics.

Duncan Craig · March 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM

It sounds (pardon the pun) like you'll need to add gain on the trim function.

Levels do vary across different equipment, impedances and whether the mic is powered or dynamic.

Duncan.

Colin Pearce · March 4th, 2008, 04:36 PM

Can the mic take phantom power? How about using that instead of batteries?

Andy Tejral · March 4th, 2008, 10:00 PM

I believe that Sennheiser mikes do tend to the hot side. You need much less gain on a Mackie mixer than a Sony mic. Sorry, don't know the model numbers of either. But that could explain what your seeing.

Dugi Barr · March 5th, 2008, 03:34 AM

Using Phantom Power doesn't change anything. Mics remain at same level with or without PP. However, upping the trim to +6db, did make a difference. The lapel mics still need to be driven at max 10 on the level meters but at least now I can see some reasonable peaks on the timeline. Strange because using these same mics on my Betacam the level meters only need to be set at level 5 to achieve the same peaks. Can anyone advise as to whether its better to leave the trim at +6db and meters flat out at level 10 or increase the trim to +12db and pull the levels meter back down?
Appreciate all your help, thanks.

John M. McCloskey · March 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM

Same here, when we ran DVCam PCM audio our mics were very hot around half level then we went to HDV MPEG audio and allot of adjustment and headaches occured and really the only thing we could do was run gain when needed to up the levels and the preamp hiss is just something you can expect with HDV audio when recording anything shy of a normal voice. We have also noticed that the range with our wireless mics went from over 100 ft with DVCam to less than 30 ft. with HDV cam. before loosing transmission. It must have something to do with the camera because we can still hook our Lectrosonics to a DVCam and walk 100+ feet from the receiver and still get transmission then put the mics on HDV camera and 20 to 30 feet we start loosing transmission.

Craig Irving · March 5th, 2008, 09:59 AM

FWIW he has a Sony ECM-77B, not a Sennheiser.

Dugi Barr · March 6th, 2008, 02:48 PM

My apologies. I may have confused things a tad in my original post by referring to the ECM-77B as a Sennheiser.
You can tell I'm not a sound engineer.
Don't know my "Sony's" from my "Sennie's".
DB

Martin Mayer · March 6th, 2008, 03:46 PM

Dugi - what camera are we talking about here?

Dugi Barr · March 6th, 2008, 04:12 PM

HVR-Z1E Martin.
Apologies again.
I didn't realise this forum covered different models.

Colin Pearce · March 6th, 2008, 05:58 PM

As the signal is so weak, have you considered that the mics may be faulty (it wouldn't be the first time that 2 mics have become faulty)? Does it work without having to pump up the gain on other devices, such as a DAT recorder? Perhaps your Z1 has a faulty connection. Have you tried a different XLR cable, or connect it to the other channel? Can the dreaded "Auto" get it up to an acceptable level?

Dugi Barr · March 6th, 2008, 06:46 PM

Like I mentioned Colin
"Strange because using these same mics on my Betacam the level meters only need to be set at level 5 to achieve the same peaks."
Auto actually makes the level lower.
Do your lapel mics record well to the Z1?

March 4th, 2008, 03:47 AM	#1
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	Lapel Mics Low Level. When I record audio with my Sennheiser 416 and Level set to 5, everything is fine, nice peaks, no clipping. When I record with a Tram Lapel mic and a Sennheiser ECM-77B Lapel mic, Level set to 10 everything is not fine. Very low level and barely discernible peaks on timeline. Other Audi settings are.. Audio Output = 2Vrms Mode = 48k Input Level = Mic Input Trim = 0db The settings remain constant for all mics and both lapel mics have fresh batteries. Is there another audio setting somewhere I've missed?

March 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM	#4
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	It sounds (pardon the pun) like you'll need to add gain on the trim function. Levels do vary across different equipment, impedances and whether the mic is powered or dynamic. Duncan. __________________ FCPX/LS300/EX1/FS100/GoPro/Vinten/HotHead/Jib/Track/Dedos/Lightstorm/Coollights

March 4th, 2008, 10:00 PM	#6
Andy Tejral Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 523	I believe that Sennheiser mikes do tend to the hot side. You need much less gain on a Mackie mixer than a Sony mic. Sorry, don't know the model numbers of either. But that could explain what your seeing. __________________ Andy Tejral Railroad Videographer

March 6th, 2008, 03:46 PM	#11
Martin Mayer Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 416	Dugi - what camera are we talking about here? __________________ Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray

March 4th, 2008, 08:41 AM	#2
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	What kind of receiver /transmitter are you using?

March 4th, 2008, 10:43 AM	#3
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	They're hard wired John. Not radio mics.

March 4th, 2008, 04:36 PM	#5
Colin Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 99	Can the mic take phantom power? How about using that instead of batteries?

March 5th, 2008, 03:34 AM	#7
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	Using Phantom Power doesn't change anything. Mics remain at same level with or without PP. However, upping the trim to +6db, did make a difference. The lapel mics still need to be driven at max 10 on the level meters but at least now I can see some reasonable peaks on the timeline. Strange because using these same mics on my Betacam the level meters only need to be set at level 5 to achieve the same peaks. Can anyone advise as to whether its better to leave the trim at +6db and meters flat out at level 10 or increase the trim to +12db and pull the levels meter back down? Appreciate all your help, thanks.

March 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM	#8
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	Same here, when we ran DVCam PCM audio our mics were very hot around half level then we went to HDV MPEG audio and allot of adjustment and headaches occured and really the only thing we could do was run gain when needed to up the levels and the preamp hiss is just something you can expect with HDV audio when recording anything shy of a normal voice. We have also noticed that the range with our wireless mics went from over 100 ft with DVCam to less than 30 ft. with HDV cam. before loosing transmission. It must have something to do with the camera because we can still hook our Lectrosonics to a DVCam and walk 100+ feet from the receiver and still get transmission then put the mics on HDV camera and 20 to 30 feet we start loosing transmission.

March 5th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#9
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	FWIW he has a Sony ECM-77B, not a Sennheiser.

March 6th, 2008, 02:48 PM	#10
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	My apologies. I may have confused things a tad in my original post by referring to the ECM-77B as a Sennheiser. You can tell I'm not a sound engineer. Don't know my "Sony's" from my "Sennie's". DB

March 6th, 2008, 04:12 PM	#12
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	HVR-Z1E Martin. Apologies again. I didn't realise this forum covered different models.

March 6th, 2008, 05:58 PM	#13
Colin Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 99	As the signal is so weak, have you considered that the mics may be faulty (it wouldn't be the first time that 2 mics have become faulty)? Does it work without having to pump up the gain on other devices, such as a DAT recorder? Perhaps your Z1 has a faulty connection. Have you tried a different XLR cable, or connect it to the other channel? Can the dreaded "Auto" get it up to an acceptable level?

March 6th, 2008, 06:46 PM	#14
Dugi Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Esher, Surrey Posts: 89	Like I mentioned Colin "Strange because using these same mics on my Betacam the level meters only need to be set at level 5 to achieve the same peaks." Auto actually makes the level lower. Do your lapel mics record well to the Z1?