Pull 24P out of 60i from HVR-V1U at DVinfo.net

Malameel Shawky · June 22nd, 2007, 08:24 PM

I first want to make sure I am seeing up the camera correctly before I pull my hair out with editing it. I have my HVR-V1U setup for 24A and I am recording the 60i stream to the Sony external hard drive.

So far I have only tried to use Sony Vegas but it only imports the footage at 60i but it doesn't correctly give me the 24P. I am not stuck on Vegas , or premire or FCP or whatever. (I have all three) I am just first trying to get the 24P correctly extracted. If I have to guess based on what I have read here and elsewhere, it seems that the footage is correctly recorded, but until I can get it into an editor, I do not know for sure.

(I would like to avoid buying extra software unless it is a must, not just because it is better or it is a favorite. I want to pull the 24P and then decide if I need extra stuff to improve quality.)

Thanks for the help,
M

Alex Raskin · June 23rd, 2007, 06:45 AM

I use Cineform Aspect HD (not affiliated, just a happy user), and it works fine removing the 2-3 pulldown on footage ingest into PC. In both firewire or HDMI cases.

Malameel Shawky · June 23rd, 2007, 07:06 PM

I have been reading all day long and my eyes hurt.

Well so far it seems that the HDLink will convert my files to a 24P QT file that will allow me to edit in watever I want.

I got when I downloaded NEOHD.

However, I have another question still related. Is the HVR-V1U's 24P actually 23.97 or is this the default of the CineForm's Neo conversion?
M

Michael Palmer · June 25th, 2007, 11:02 PM

The V1 is only 60i even if you shot 24p the camera immediately converts to 29:97 60i. Why do you need to reverse telecine and remove the pulldown. You do know this is only good for a real film out as the NTSC world needs the pull down and will add it back later for anyone to see it on a TV. That is why the V1 adds it in to begin with.
Good Luck
Michael Palmer

Steve Mullen · June 25th, 2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Palmer

Why do you need to reverse telecine and remove the pulldown. You do know this is only good for a real film out as the NTSC world needs the pull down and will add it back later for anyone to see it on a TV.

nooooo! When you edit 1080i60/24p you may break the 2-3 cadence at every edit point which, when you playback your production, will drive the deinterlacer in TVs up the wall!

Could I suggest a good book on video technology. :)

PS: this book will also tell you that such advice can be ignored IF you are prepared for the results.

Malameel Shawky · June 25th, 2007, 11:37 PM

I am doing a documentary and we do need true 24P and we will be mixing this in with footage from our main camera.

So far it seems that I will ingest (DR60) in M2T, you Cineform to convert to QT and edit from there. If we decide to use FCP, we can either test the beta of the Cineform, or convert to QT uncompressed so it can go anywhere.
M

Steve Mullen · June 26th, 2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malameel Shawky

If we decide to use FCP, we can either test the beta of the Cineform, or convert to QT uncompressed so it can go anywhere.
M

It is not the CineForm codec that does this. You need a capture function in FCP that will do the pulldown removal -- something that does NOT exist.

And, there's no reason to use either the CineForm or Uncompressed codecs now that ProRes is available. ProRes let's you edit in realtime -- the others don't.

I sense you really don't yet have a workable workflow. Possibly, because there really isn't one with Apple.

Ray Bell · June 26th, 2007, 05:06 AM

get Cineform and choose your editor... I have heard Vegas does a better job on the output... some use both, Premiere and Vegas in the work flow...

They work great on a pc platform....

Malameel Shawky · June 26th, 2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

It is not the CineForm codec that does this. You need a capture function in FCP that will do the pulldown removal -- something that does NOT exist.

And, there's no reason to use either the CineForm or Uncompressed codecs now that ProRes is available. ProRes let's you edit in realtime -- the others don't.

I sense you really don't yet have a workable workflow. Possibly, because there really isn't one with Apple.

Once the video is captured (DR60) and then transferred on the PC, the pulldown removed and I have a quicktime file on my desktop, I can then convert that quicktime (that Cineform created) to an uncompressed format.
M

Steve Mullen · June 27th, 2007, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malameel Shawky

Once the video is captured (DR60) and then transferred on the PC, the pulldown removed and I have a quicktime file on my desktop, I can then convert that quicktime (that Cineform created) to an uncompressed format.
M

What application are you thinking will remove pulldown?

Why on earth would you convert CineForm codec video to uncompressed? The whole point of CineForm is to eliminate uncompressed!

It's not clear are you on a PC or Mac? If a Mac, neither CineForm or Uncompressed video can be edited in realtime.

If you use CineForm -- you want to use Premiere because the FX are accelerated. With Vegas they are not.

IMHO, neither are as good an NLE as EDIUS. EDIUS also has built-in pulldown removal and has its own HQ codec. You don't need to buy anything more.

Malameel Shawky · June 27th, 2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

What application are you thinking will remove pulldown?

Why on earth would you convert CineForm codec video to uncompressed? The whole point of CineForm is to eliminate uncompressed!

It's not clear are you on a PC or Mac? If a Mac, neither CineForm or Uncompressed video can be edited in realtime.

If you use CineForm -- you want to use Premiere because the FX are accelerated. With Vegas they are not.

IMHO, neither are as good an NLE as EDIUS. EDIUS also has built-in pulldown removal and has its own HQ codec. You don't need to buy anything more.

The whole point of CineForm is not to elimate uncompressed, but to remove the pulldown. (Now others may need to, but I do not have any problems editing large files but I do need a tool to remove the pull down and something like CineForm can do that. From there I can go anywhere.

The point I was making was that you do not have to use CineForm to edit. There are several plug-ins that can remove the pulldown and I am still experimenting with Cineform (which DOES work very well but costs ALLOT for something that your manufacturer SHOULD be providing but that is another story.) So once I have my M2T file (on a PC), I can remove the pulldown (say using CineForm or alt) and get an uncompressed Quicktime. Then that QT can be converted to any codec you want, including something friendly to the Mac, or stay in the PC and use whatever.

Either way I am saying that you have choices.

Somebody may rather accelerated Vegas even though it is not accelerated because they know Vegas and need to edit now and not learn a new tool, or rather use a codec on the Mac because they use FCP and may not feel comfortable with beta software. Even by your post you prefer EDIUS because you want choice.

I am not an expert, but so far it does seem to be working.
M

June 22nd, 2007, 08:24 PM	#1
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	Pull 24P out of 60i from HVR-V1U I first want to make sure I am seeing up the camera correctly before I pull my hair out with editing it. I have my HVR-V1U setup for 24A and I am recording the 60i stream to the Sony external hard drive. So far I have only tried to use Sony Vegas but it only imports the footage at 60i but it doesn't correctly give me the 24P. I am not stuck on Vegas , or premire or FCP or whatever. (I have all three) I am just first trying to get the 24P correctly extracted. If I have to guess based on what I have read here and elsewhere, it seems that the footage is correctly recorded, but until I can get it into an editor, I do not know for sure. (I would like to avoid buying extra software unless it is a must, not just because it is better or it is a favorite. I want to pull the 24P and then decide if I need extra stuff to improve quality.) Thanks for the help, M

June 23rd, 2007, 06:45 AM	#2
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	I use Cineform Aspect HD (not affiliated, just a happy user), and it works fine removing the 2-3 pulldown on footage ingest into PC. In both firewire or HDMI cases.

June 23rd, 2007, 07:06 PM	#3
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	I have been reading all day long and my eyes hurt. Well so far it seems that the HDLink will convert my files to a 24P QT file that will allow me to edit in watever I want. I got when I downloaded NEOHD. However, I have another question still related. Is the HVR-V1U's 24P actually 23.97 or is this the default of the CineForm's Neo conversion? M

June 25th, 2007, 11:02 PM	#4
Michael Palmer Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lakewood, Ca Posts: 65	The V1 is only 60i even if you shot 24p the camera immediately converts to 29:97 60i. Why do you need to reverse telecine and remove the pulldown. You do know this is only good for a real film out as the NTSC world needs the pull down and will add it back later for anyone to see it on a TV. That is why the V1 adds it in to begin with. Good Luck Michael Palmer

June 25th, 2007, 11:37 PM	#6
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	I am doing a documentary and we do need true 24P and we will be mixing this in with footage from our main camera. So far it seems that I will ingest (DR60) in M2T, you Cineform to convert to QT and edit from there. If we decide to use FCP, we can either test the beta of the Cineform, or convert to QT uncompressed so it can go anywhere. M

June 26th, 2007, 05:06 AM	#8
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	get Cineform and choose your editor... I have heard Vegas does a better job on the output... some use both, Premiere and Vegas in the work flow... They work great on a pc platform....