V1U Camera mic just died on me at DVinfo.net

Greg Quinn · May 25th, 2007, 12:02 PM

Has this happened to anyone else? The boom mic on the camera seems to have quit on me.
Greg

Lee Berger · May 25th, 2007, 02:30 PM

Have you checked to be sure the 48V switch is still on? It seems obvious, but worth a look.

Greg Quinn · May 25th, 2007, 04:59 PM

Thanks Lee, yes, I checked the whole caboose - the only thing I can think of is that the cables got tweeked when taking out and putting back into the case I use, and I've been careful about doing that.

Greg Boston · May 25th, 2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Thanks Lee, yes, I checked the whole caboose - the only thing I can think of is that the cables got tweeked when taking out and putting back into the case I use, and I've been careful about doing that.

That's a very good possibility. Is it XLR on both ends? Just grab any mic cable and try it in order to eliminate or confirm the present cable. I've had mic cables go bad like that.

-gb-

Greg Quinn · May 25th, 2007, 11:01 PM

Thanks yes, a strange intermittent cable problem - very odd.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 26th, 2007, 01:58 AM

You needed a mic upgrade anyway. The V1 mic is so insensitive it could record an atomic explosion without clipping. I can't get it to register -12db without yelling right into it. I think an SM58 has more reach. Typical speech is at -20db at full gain on my cam. My wireless has perfect levels, so it's not the camera.

Lee Berger · May 26th, 2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

That's a very good possibility. Is it XLR on both ends? Just grab any mic cable and try it in order to eliminate or confirm the present cable. I've had mic cables go bad like that.

-gb-

It's XLR on one and and hardwired on the mic end. I agree with Marcus that an upgrade is a good idea. However, while the SM58 is a great hand held interview mic, it's not a shotgun and won't mount on the V1u. The Sony ECM 674 may be a good upgrade. I used the ECM-670 for years in a previous job and found it to be excellent for it's price.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 26th, 2007, 08:52 AM

The SM 58 is one of the few mics that would be worse than the OEM mic.
Fairly tight uni pattern, proximity issues, etc...SM58 is designed to be very close to source.
AT897, Senn 66, lots of choices for not a lot of money.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM

"I think an SM58 has more reach."

You guys crack me up! I tried to think of the mic with the least amount of range and your comments sounded a bit like "yes, it has similar reach to the stock V1 mic, but it won't fit". That isn't saying much good about the V1 mic! I'm still giggling while I type this.

I'm definitely not suggesting a vocal performance mic for replacing the stock mic, but I can't imagine anything else being much worse. I can't even determine the quality of the stock mic because it's output is so poor.

**********

Uh oh. I decided to do some tests. I took a Samson vocal performance mic (sort of an SM58 knock-off) and attached it to CH1 and put the stock V1 mic on CH2. I put them both about a foot away from my mouth and pointed them straight at me. I pulled up the "status check" screen that shows the graphic levels of the audio. The news was not really that good for the stock V1 microphone. It was slightly more sensitive at room tone (quiet television and a couple of fans) with three bars showing vs. one bar showing on the Samson. When I spoke loudly, the Samson was slightly more sensitive. The Samson is a bit more dynamic while the Sony is a bit more sensitive from a distance.

I intended my statement about the Sony mic being as sensitive as a vocal mic to be a joke. I guess the joke is on me?

The obvious advantage of the stock mic is that it is very light. I won't be swapping it with a performance mic, but I'm definitely now going to find something else.

Leslie Wand · May 26th, 2007, 08:39 PM

i find the stock mic perfectly alright for a stock mic. when i need something more i use either my senn me80 on camera, or 66 off camera.

of course, for specialised work, talking heads, etc., i either wire them with a sony lapel (can't remeber the model no. but it's about 15 years old and working fine), or senn e100 radio - which is great, but i really can't be bothered with failing batteries, bad reception, and talent forgetting they're wearing a pack....

leslie

Marcus Marchesseault · May 26th, 2007, 10:16 PM

I just don't see how it's possible to get a -12db signal from a human being standing far enough away from the camera to actually frame their whole head and shoulders in the shot. If the stock mic can't produce a decent signal at the minimum practical distance from the lens, it isn't strong enough. The only way I could get a full signal was to turn the gain all the way up and put the mic right in my face. I'm not expecting miracles, just a decent signal from someone speaking clearly three feet from the camera.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 26th, 2007, 10:27 PM

It's not likely you'll *ever* get what most would call usable audio at -6dB peaks with an on-camera mic, unless it's an array-type mic at any reasonable lens distance...On camera mics aren't for real-world use if you want quality audio. Can't be done.
The greatest operating distance for the very best mics in the world (for dialogics and similar uses) is 36", and even then you're pushing it. There simply is too much air between the source and the mic in most situations.

Leslie Wand · May 27th, 2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

I just don't see how it's possible to get a -12db signal from a human being standing far enough away from the camera to actually frame their whole head and shoulders in the shot. If the stock mic can't produce a decent signal at the minimum practical distance from the lens, it isn't strong enough. The only way I could get a full signal was to turn the gain all the way up and put the mic right in my face. I'm not expecting miracles, just a decent signal from someone speaking clearly three feet from the camera.

i agree entirely - but for the shot you describe i wouldn't even dream of using an on camera mic! when i wrote about swapping on camera for 80 / 66, it was only in regard to quality of ambient recording, or doing vox pop (when i can shove my camera up someone's nose).

if you want good sound, you have to work to get it.....

leslie

Piotr Wozniacki · May 27th, 2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

The obvious advantage of the stock mic is that it is very light. I won't be swapping it with a performance mic, but I'm definitely now going to find something else.

I second that statement. And, it's a very important advantage on a camera as small and handy as the V1 - unless I'm very serious about the audio side, I always keep the stock mic on, because it's so small and unobtrusive.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 27th, 2007, 02:57 AM

"On camera mics aren't for real-world use if you want quality audio. Can't be done."

I agree with you guys, but I figured that my main problem would be the quality of the sound and not a LACK of sound. I assumed that the mic at 36" would be struggling to maintain -12db and pick up a lot of ambient and reflections, but not go quiet.

I don't expect anything but "camera up the nose" or ambient from an on-camera, but I can't even get that with this mic. I have my Lectrosonics wireless for interviews, so I'm not out in the cold, but I would expect salvagable "emergency" audio from nearby subjects from a shotgun. I guess I know why I spent the money on an expensive wireless and why I'll be getting an AT4073a one of these days. I experienced one of those that a friend owns and it did a great job indoors even held probably more than 36" from the talent. It did not have the low-frequency room reflections that I was expecting. Oh well, as long as there is a solution.

May 25th, 2007, 12:02 PM	#1
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	V1U Camera mic just died on me Has this happened to anyone else? The boom mic on the camera seems to have quit on me. Greg

May 26th, 2007, 08:52 AM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The SM 58 is one of the few mics that would be worse than the OEM mic. Fairly tight uni pattern, proximity issues, etc...SM58 is designed to be very close to source. AT897, Senn 66, lots of choices for not a lot of money. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 26th, 2007, 10:27 PM	#12
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	It's not likely you'll ever get what most would call usable audio at -6dB peaks with an on-camera mic, unless it's an array-type mic at any reasonable lens distance...On camera mics aren't for real-world use if you want quality audio. Can't be done. The greatest operating distance for the very best mics in the world (for dialogics and similar uses) is 36", and even then you're pushing it. There simply is too much air between the source and the mic in most situations. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 25th, 2007, 02:30 PM	#2
Lee Berger Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 326	Have you checked to be sure the 48V switch is still on? It seems obvious, but worth a look.

May 25th, 2007, 04:59 PM	#3
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	Thanks Lee, yes, I checked the whole caboose - the only thing I can think of is that the cables got tweeked when taking out and putting back into the case I use, and I've been careful about doing that.

May 25th, 2007, 11:01 PM	#5
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	Thanks yes, a strange intermittent cable problem - very odd.

May 26th, 2007, 01:58 AM	#6
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	You needed a mic upgrade anyway. The V1 mic is so insensitive it could record an atomic explosion without clipping. I can't get it to register -12db without yelling right into it. I think an SM58 has more reach. Typical speech is at -20db at full gain on my cam. My wireless has perfect levels, so it's not the camera.

May 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM	#9
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"I think an SM58 has more reach." You guys crack me up! I tried to think of the mic with the least amount of range and your comments sounded a bit like "yes, it has similar reach to the stock V1 mic, but it won't fit". That isn't saying much good about the V1 mic! I'm still giggling while I type this. I'm definitely not suggesting a vocal performance mic for replacing the stock mic, but I can't imagine anything else being much worse. I can't even determine the quality of the stock mic because it's output is so poor. ********** Uh oh. I decided to do some tests. I took a Samson vocal performance mic (sort of an SM58 knock-off) and attached it to CH1 and put the stock V1 mic on CH2. I put them both about a foot away from my mouth and pointed them straight at me. I pulled up the "status check" screen that shows the graphic levels of the audio. The news was not really that good for the stock V1 microphone. It was slightly more sensitive at room tone (quiet television and a couple of fans) with three bars showing vs. one bar showing on the Samson. When I spoke loudly, the Samson was slightly more sensitive. The Samson is a bit more dynamic while the Sony is a bit more sensitive from a distance. I intended my statement about the Sony mic being as sensitive as a vocal mic to be a joke. I guess the joke is on me? The obvious advantage of the stock mic is that it is very light. I won't be swapping it with a performance mic, but I'm definitely now going to find something else.

May 26th, 2007, 08:39 PM	#10
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	i find the stock mic perfectly alright for a stock mic. when i need something more i use either my senn me80 on camera, or 66 off camera. of course, for specialised work, talking heads, etc., i either wire them with a sony lapel (can't remeber the model no. but it's about 15 years old and working fine), or senn e100 radio - which is great, but i really can't be bothered with failing batteries, bad reception, and talent forgetting they're wearing a pack.... leslie

May 26th, 2007, 10:16 PM	#11
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I just don't see how it's possible to get a -12db signal from a human being standing far enough away from the camera to actually frame their whole head and shoulders in the shot. If the stock mic can't produce a decent signal at the minimum practical distance from the lens, it isn't strong enough. The only way I could get a full signal was to turn the gain all the way up and put the mic right in my face. I'm not expecting miracles, just a decent signal from someone speaking clearly three feet from the camera.

May 27th, 2007, 02:57 AM	#15
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"On camera mics aren't for real-world use if you want quality audio. Can't be done." I agree with you guys, but I figured that my main problem would be the quality of the sound and not a LACK of sound. I assumed that the mic at 36" would be struggling to maintain -12db and pick up a lot of ambient and reflections, but not go quiet. I don't expect anything but "camera up the nose" or ambient from an on-camera, but I can't even get that with this mic. I have my Lectrosonics wireless for interviews, so I'm not out in the cold, but I would expect salvagable "emergency" audio from nearby subjects from a shotgun. I guess I know why I spent the money on an expensive wireless and why I'll be getting an AT4073a one of these days. I experienced one of those that a friend owns and it did a great job indoors even held probably more than 36" from the talent. It did not have the low-frequency room reflections that I was expecting. Oh well, as long as there is a solution.