independent audio chanels? at DVinfo.net

Leslie Wand · May 4th, 2007, 03:42 AM

have just received my vi and am having some difficulty figuring out the audio:

on my old pd170 i can direct mic to ch 1 and 2, and leave ch1 on auto, and adjust ch 2 manually - all very simply. i don't seem to be able to do this on the v1?

what am i missing, and what do i need to do to do this if it does do it in the first place?

shooting tomorrow, so i'm ever so slightly panic'd,

leslie

Marcus Marchesseault · May 4th, 2007, 04:41 AM

You can direct input 1 to both channels by flipping the switch on the left side of the mic input module. It's next to the CH1 manual gain dial. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to set the gain separately. I'm guessing you do this so you can set one level low to make sure you always have a channel that avoids clipping. I'm not sure what to recommend. Perhaps you will need to use auto gain. The stock mic isn't very sensitive, so I doubt it will clip very much.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 4th, 2007, 04:44 AM

Set it to CH1+CH2, and flip the switch on CH1 to AUTO, and on CH2 - to MAN. Then, in the AUDIO menu, set the AU. MAN GAIN to SEPARATE. Should do exactly what you want!

Marcus Marchesseault · May 4th, 2007, 04:55 AM

Piotr, that doesn't work on my camera. I don't know why they would have a "separate" and "linked" option if it doesn't do anything.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 4th, 2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Piotr, that doesn't work on my camera. I don't know why they would have a "separate" and "linked" option if it doesn't do anything.

Oh yes it does "something" - when both channels are set to MAN, it works (either enabling or disabling the CH2 level knob). I never tried your "one auto, one manual" config though - must do it what I have a spare moment.

If indeed it doesn't work this way, your only option would be to set one channel manually to a lower, safe level and keep it constant - and operate the other channel accordingly to the actual sound intensity.

Leslie Wand · May 4th, 2007, 05:52 AM

thanks,

agree with marcus, don't appear to work. will have another play in the morning, but i also have a shoot (sound not important), but it's a real bugger not having the 150/170 set up.

i've been shooting with ch1 auto and ch2 manual on the 150 / 170, etc., and find it great for simple run and gun situations where i don't either have the time, or inclination to do a full set up. i've never had a problem this way finding usable audio from some really extreme situations.

don't suppose sony's going to offer a fix, ha.....

leslie

Don Bloom · May 4th, 2007, 07:36 AM

I'm not familar with the V1 but on the 150/170 the seperate and linked config is in a menu-I'm guessing that the V1 MIGHT be the same. Maybe.
Have you looked there? Just a thought.

Don

Marcus Marchesseault · May 4th, 2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

If indeed it doesn't work this way, your only option would be to set one channel manually to a lower, safe level and keep it constant - and operate the other channel accordingly to the actual sound intensity.

It doesn't work either on manual or auto. CH1 and CH2 are forced to the same level when CH1 is sent to both channels. With everything I've tried, there is no way to separate them without using two mics.

Don, we changed the menu settings but it doesn't work like the PD170. One mic can't be set to two different levels on separate channels.

Leslie Wand · May 4th, 2007, 04:20 PM

ditto marcus.

what a bugger.

leslie

Piotr Wozniacki · May 5th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Yes I can confirm, "SEPARATE" works only with 2 physical connections! SO, it's only useful with two mono, quite separate microphones (SEPARATE), or a single, stereo microphone with two XLR outputs (LINKED); otherwise the option is useless.

Leslie Wand · May 5th, 2007, 04:49 AM

i mean WHY? if it ain't broke, why fix it?

bugger, bugger, bugger....

now i really have to pay attention to my wild audio....

leslie

Chris Leong · May 5th, 2007, 07:41 AM

Yeah, that's a definite problem.

Leslie, I used to use a similar mic technique (for some reason not much used here in America) whereby the output from a single mic is spread across two channels, but one level is set high and the other low, so if the subject shouts (or shoots, or something else loud happens) and then whispers, you're not going to get caught out on the audio levels - one of them or the other is going to work, just intercut in post. We used to do this a lot in the UK, especially on low budget one-man-show stereo Nagra shoots. Just set up your levels for noisiest on the one side and quietest on the other, and then concentrate on your booming (or running and booming)...

I think you can achieve what you're after, but not unless you have a set of audio jacks and plugs, some audio cable, and soldering ability.

You can make a single to double mic input, taking the incoming signal into a socket, making a Y connection into two outgoing plugs, and then plugging both into your camera. I don't know if the Sony has sufficient audio input intelligence to sense the same input impedances and override its two-separate-mics-only program, but that's a simple way to find out.

If you listen to both channels together they'll phase, of course, but you'll not be worried about that, since you're only going to be playing the one channel or the other in post.

Alternatively (and I know this is silly) you can use a two channel line pre and then plug and play.

I myself got the FX7 and a Beachtek to get around this very same problem. I'm very pleased with it because the FX7's audio pre's aren't nearly as good as the Beachtek's, and I'm a stickler for location audio.

HTH, YMMV, etc.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 5th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Yeah, I guess this might be the only work-around. I do have an Y, XLR cable - but it's stereo (I'm using it with the Edirol mic). But I will probably prepare another one, with the mono signal spreading to the two V1's channels.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 5th, 2007, 08:04 AM

Chris, the stock mic on the V1 is not very sensitive, so cutting down it's signal by splitting it may not work very well. It is a good suggestion regardless.

Perhaps there are some small mics with XLR output that can be used on the backup attenuated channel. I hate workarounds, but that's all I can think of. Personally, I will always be using my wireless on one channel and a shotgun on the other. I think I'm going to look into a separate mic holder for the cold shoe and carry an extra mic in case I am in a situation where my wireless isn't workable.

Chris Leong · May 5th, 2007, 08:10 AM

Marcus
I wasn't aware that the V1u had any mics. In fact, I thought I was aware that the place where the mics are on the FX7 became the mic pres and XLR inputs on the V1...

Oh, I see what you mean. The V1 comes with an external short shotgun, right? I thought it was powered and balanced. Yeah, I'd get something more serious than that.

Good idea on the extra shotgun mic holder for the cold shoe. Give us a tipoff when you've found a decent one. The V1u's mic holder is pretty flimsy, AFAIR, held in by two micro screws. Coming from a DVX, I remember being a little shocked at it. I'd rather get something a lot more substantial since the mics I use for work cost more than many camcorders...

May 4th, 2007, 03:42 AM	#1
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	independent audio chanels? have just received my vi and am having some difficulty figuring out the audio: on my old pd170 i can direct mic to ch 1 and 2, and leave ch1 on auto, and adjust ch 2 manually - all very simply. i don't seem to be able to do this on the v1? what am i missing, and what do i need to do to do this if it does do it in the first place? shooting tomorrow, so i'm ever so slightly panic'd, leslie

May 4th, 2007, 04:44 AM	#3
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Set it to CH1+CH2, and flip the switch on CH1 to AUTO, and on CH2 - to MAN. Then, in the AUDIO menu, set the AU. MAN GAIN to SEPARATE. Should do exactly what you want! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

May 5th, 2007, 01:13 AM	#10
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Yes I can confirm, "SEPARATE" works only with 2 physical connections! SO, it's only useful with two mono, quite separate microphones (SEPARATE), or a single, stereo microphone with two XLR outputs (LINKED); otherwise the option is useless. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

May 5th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#13
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Yeah, I guess this might be the only work-around. I do have an Y, XLR cable - but it's stereo (I'm using it with the Edirol mic). But I will probably prepare another one, with the mono signal spreading to the two V1's channels. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

May 4th, 2007, 04:41 AM	#2
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	You can direct input 1 to both channels by flipping the switch on the left side of the mic input module. It's next to the CH1 manual gain dial. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to set the gain separately. I'm guessing you do this so you can set one level low to make sure you always have a channel that avoids clipping. I'm not sure what to recommend. Perhaps you will need to use auto gain. The stock mic isn't very sensitive, so I doubt it will clip very much.

May 4th, 2007, 04:55 AM	#4
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Piotr, that doesn't work on my camera. I don't know why they would have a "separate" and "linked" option if it doesn't do anything.

May 4th, 2007, 05:52 AM	#6
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	thanks, agree with marcus, don't appear to work. will have another play in the morning, but i also have a shoot (sound not important), but it's a real bugger not having the 150/170 set up. i've been shooting with ch1 auto and ch2 manual on the 150 / 170, etc., and find it great for simple run and gun situations where i don't either have the time, or inclination to do a full set up. i've never had a problem this way finding usable audio from some really extreme situations. don't suppose sony's going to offer a fix, ha..... leslie

May 4th, 2007, 07:36 AM	#7
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I'm not familar with the V1 but on the 150/170 the seperate and linked config is in a menu-I'm guessing that the V1 MIGHT be the same. Maybe. Have you looked there? Just a thought. Don

May 4th, 2007, 04:20 PM	#9
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	ditto marcus. what a bugger. leslie

May 5th, 2007, 04:49 AM	#11
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	i mean WHY? if it ain't broke, why fix it? bugger, bugger, bugger.... now i really have to pay attention to my wild audio.... leslie

May 5th, 2007, 07:41 AM	#12
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Yeah, that's a definite problem. Leslie, I used to use a similar mic technique (for some reason not much used here in America) whereby the output from a single mic is spread across two channels, but one level is set high and the other low, so if the subject shouts (or shoots, or something else loud happens) and then whispers, you're not going to get caught out on the audio levels - one of them or the other is going to work, just intercut in post. We used to do this a lot in the UK, especially on low budget one-man-show stereo Nagra shoots. Just set up your levels for noisiest on the one side and quietest on the other, and then concentrate on your booming (or running and booming)... I think you can achieve what you're after, but not unless you have a set of audio jacks and plugs, some audio cable, and soldering ability. You can make a single to double mic input, taking the incoming signal into a socket, making a Y connection into two outgoing plugs, and then plugging both into your camera. I don't know if the Sony has sufficient audio input intelligence to sense the same input impedances and override its two-separate-mics-only program, but that's a simple way to find out. If you listen to both channels together they'll phase, of course, but you'll not be worried about that, since you're only going to be playing the one channel or the other in post. Alternatively (and I know this is silly) you can use a two channel line pre and then plug and play. I myself got the FX7 and a Beachtek to get around this very same problem. I'm very pleased with it because the FX7's audio pre's aren't nearly as good as the Beachtek's, and I'm a stickler for location audio. HTH, YMMV, etc.

May 5th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#14
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Chris, the stock mic on the V1 is not very sensitive, so cutting down it's signal by splitting it may not work very well. It is a good suggestion regardless. Perhaps there are some small mics with XLR output that can be used on the backup attenuated channel. I hate workarounds, but that's all I can think of. Personally, I will always be using my wireless on one channel and a shotgun on the other. I think I'm going to look into a separate mic holder for the cold shoe and carry an extra mic in case I am in a situation where my wireless isn't workable.

May 5th, 2007, 08:10 AM	#15
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Marcus I wasn't aware that the V1u had any mics. In fact, I thought I was aware that the place where the mics are on the FX7 became the mic pres and XLR inputs on the V1... Oh, I see what you mean. The V1 comes with an external short shotgun, right? I thought it was powered and balanced. Yeah, I'd get something more serious than that. Good idea on the extra shotgun mic holder for the cold shoe. Give us a tipoff when you've found a decent one. The V1u's mic holder is pretty flimsy, AFAIR, held in by two micro screws. Coming from a DVX, I remember being a little shocked at it. I'd rather get something a lot more substantial since the mics I use for work cost more than many camcorders...