Call me silly but... (long post - FX7!!)

Piotr Wozniacki · April 23rd, 2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

The V1 has more menu options, but if one doesn't drill down to them, then the V1 remains the same camcorder as the FX7. Couple that with Chris' expressed lack of understanding of Picture Profiles brings yet another level of confusion to the conversation; the V1 and FX7 offer the same features in the Picture Profiles, excepting that the V1 offers more options in the Picture Profiles. If you're using PP, IMO you DEFINITELY want the V1. Black Stretch AND Compress is a significantly large diff, just as one example.

I have chosen the V1 over the FX7 for exactly the reasons you mention (plus XLR audio), but rejected the Canon for the reasons more similar to Chris choosing the FX7. Yet, I never mentioned (or repeated) it here, cause it's irrelevant to the thread's topic.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 23rd, 2007, 08:20 AM

yes, Chris, i get your point.
I only wish you'd see mine.
My concern is that someone will stumble across this thread, and with your credentials, purchase a camcorder that is lacking what the majority of shooters are asking for in their camcorder.
You yourself haven't scratched the surface of what the camcorder can do, yet you're confident that the FX7 is a superior camcorder, based on lacking features and 1/8 lb difference in the lens end.
You might not need both black stretch and compress, but many shooters need it. Not everyone has access to a 2/3 HDCAM or 1/2 XDCAM, or 16/35mm cameras for those times that light is lacking and you need a great shot.
A sound guy might always be available to you, but many here don't have the luxury, so the XLR/Phantom power component is fairly necessary. Or they can buy an add-on to give them phantom and XLR, but then the cost is nearly identical, plus the ergonomics of the camcorder are gone.
Most folks (present company not included) prefer 24p.
Not everyone has a light meter, or even knows how to use one, but will find the additional modes of the V1 to be exceptionally useful when determining exposure.

Chris, I'm sure you could pick up most any camcorder and make it sing. What I don't get is how you can find one to be superior to the other, simply because the other has more in-depth offerings that you might not ever touch.
On rare occasion, I fly with an Arricam Lite. Should the DP have chosen a different camera because the Arricam lite can load all Arri magazines, vs choosing an Arriflex 235, because it only offers a smaller magazines?

Believe me, I'm really thrilled to read that a person of your calibre is using the HDV format. I couldn't agree with you more on the salient points. It's the rest of it (mostly for the benefit of Google) for which I'm resistant to your point.

Chris Leong · April 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM

Douglas.
Good point. Didn't think of that. Many thanks -- and thank God for forums like this one!

Douglas has made a point that's well worth keeping in mind, people. Yes,, there are some of us who have been around awhile. Quite awhile.
And there are some of us who are just getting into this.

Okay. For the record. The V1 is a superior camera, clearly. Douglas and others have spent a lot of time and trouble informing us of that fact. Heck, if it weren't for his articles, I wouldn't have even thought of the FX7 as an alternative at all.

By telling you all of my tales as a beginning FX7 user (not a beginning videographer), I was hoping to share with a lot of you guys, , new and old, the incredible rush and joy I felt with the handling of a new tool (or toy, call it what you will) that I feel is very special. To me.

To all the new kids on the block:

Welcome!

The word 'superior' means better. The word better means "gooder", more good.
And the word good, as we all know, is open, wide open, to interpretation.
In the case of my FX7, well, you can see mine. I've laid it out for you.
In the light of my owning 35mm and 16mm film equipment, light meters, and, Douglas is quite correct, one of my good mates is a pro sound guy with wireless doodads hanging out the wazoo (who was very amused when I handed him an 1/8" extension cord, by the way - up until the time he heard the audio coming off the FX7... and then his mind started working on how he could get it to sound better... LOL!!! The human spirit, I tell ya...)

Read all you can. Spotted Eagle 's articles especially . No, I'm not kidding. You should read them all. I did.

Then you should talk to others who own the cameras you're considering, and then maybe take a leaf out of my book and go try them out. Hold one in your hand and figure out from looking at it up close and in person what people like Douglas are talking about. At least get an introduction to them all, make a passing acquaintance.

Then see which one grabs you and doesn't let go.

Naturally, you'll find that you should gravitate towards the winner of the technological polls, the most popular, the likeliest to succeed. . Especially since you are new on the block.

Cool. If you like how it feels.

If you don't then your camera will stay at home because it's too long, too small, too heavy, has too many menus, has not enough menus, has too many knobs, is the wrong color, whatever.

Then when you're out on the street thinking about how the camera could have been better, wham - opportunity knocks. The perfect shot appears. easy grabbing, just point it and shoot it.

Camera's at home. In the car. Lent to your nephew to make a school movie.
Oops.
Oh well.

Been there, done that.

And guess what?
The reason I wrote this thread in the first place is because I don't want that to happen to you.
I want to see the incredible stuff that walked by and knocked you on you ass so that you just HAD to get that shot.
And I want that camera in your hand so you can get it for me to see.
(not quite as selfless as I seem, am I?? LOL!)

Okay. Now to everybody, especially us older geezers who ought to know better.

The more we knock around with this stuff, the more it becomes familiar, a known quantity, a piece of cake.

In the beginning, it was a real struggle to get to grips with all the technology, to learn it, then learn it well, then master it.
And why did we learn to master it? So that the technology became transparent.
It didn't interfere with the creative process.

A musician practices endlessly so that when it's time to perform, or improvise, the skill set is so well learnt that technology (embrochure, stroke, parradiddle, come on, technology's been with us in one form or another ever since someone came up with a better rock) ceases to be a limiting factor, but becomes a part of the creative process.

What this means to us and the FX7 or like cameras is that we'd better know all about each and every parameter in the cameras we use, because when it comes time for that shot, and the subject is approaching the optimum background and it's time to line the camera up - now , or the crew's all waiting and the sun just went behind a cloud, that would not exactly be the best time on the planet to go poking around a menu or cracking open the manual. No, it's time for think about it, go, aha - turn the cinema gamma off (or on), and two seconds later, you're up and running.

Or, if you're like me, you'd be laying in bed going, "well? should I put this or that control onto my custom buttons, just in case?" and then you'd get out of bed, program the blessed button, try it out...

So it's a double edged sword, this technology stuff. If can reach out and cut the hardest things with ease - and it can cut your own hand off if you're not careful w.

You have to practice to get good.
So you spend your time practicing to get good.
And then you get really good, but now you're shooting for someone else who just spent the same amount of time thinking about what to shoot, not how to shoot it.

So many different roads to follow, so many trails to trails to blaze.

After a while, it all can get so... so... blah.

One more TV show to work on. One more movie that isn't mine.
One more shoot where I'm teaching a kid the ropes.

I tell you now, and I've shared with you now.
That little camera gets my heart rate up again.
'cause it got me looking out again, instead of looking in.

Chris Hurd · April 23rd, 2007, 11:08 AM

I can't think of a better conclusion for this thread than the post above, which comes from the originator of this discussion. Just to re-cap, for anyone who might be new to this and is looking at either the FX7 or V1:

Image "quality" is perfectly identical between the two.

The V1 has an expanded feature set over the FX7.

The V1 is supported by Sony Professional service; the FX7 is from the consumer group.

The right camera for you is the one which feels best in your hands and most comfortably fits your budget.

Currently there's something for everyone, whether it's an FX7, a V1, or something else entirely.

Thanks to all who participated,

April 23rd, 2007, 08:20 AM	#32
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	yes, Chris, i get your point. I only wish you'd see mine. My concern is that someone will stumble across this thread, and with your credentials, purchase a camcorder that is lacking what the majority of shooters are asking for in their camcorder. You yourself haven't scratched the surface of what the camcorder can do, yet you're confident that the FX7 is a superior camcorder, based on lacking features and 1/8 lb difference in the lens end. You might not need both black stretch and compress, but many shooters need it. Not everyone has access to a 2/3 HDCAM or 1/2 XDCAM, or 16/35mm cameras for those times that light is lacking and you need a great shot. A sound guy might always be available to you, but many here don't have the luxury, so the XLR/Phantom power component is fairly necessary. Or they can buy an add-on to give them phantom and XLR, but then the cost is nearly identical, plus the ergonomics of the camcorder are gone. Most folks (present company not included) prefer 24p. Not everyone has a light meter, or even knows how to use one, but will find the additional modes of the V1 to be exceptionally useful when determining exposure. Chris, I'm sure you could pick up most any camcorder and make it sing. What I don't get is how you can find one to be superior to the other, simply because the other has more in-depth offerings that you might not ever touch. On rare occasion, I fly with an Arricam Lite. Should the DP have chosen a different camera because the Arricam lite can load all Arri magazines, vs choosing an Arriflex 235, because it only offers a smaller magazines? Believe me, I'm really thrilled to read that a person of your calibre is using the HDV format. I couldn't agree with you more on the salient points. It's the rest of it (mostly for the benefit of Google) for which I'm resistant to your point. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 23rd, 2007, 11:08 AM	#34
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I can't think of a better conclusion for this thread than the post above, which comes from the originator of this discussion. Just to re-cap, for anyone who might be new to this and is looking at either the FX7 or V1: Image "quality" is perfectly identical between the two. The V1 has an expanded feature set over the FX7. The V1 is supported by Sony Professional service; the FX7 is from the consumer group. The right camera for you is the one which feels best in your hands and most comfortably fits your budget. Currently there's something for everyone, whether it's an FX7, a V1, or something else entirely. Thanks to all who participated, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM	#33
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Douglas. Good point. Didn't think of that. Many thanks -- and thank God for forums like this one! Douglas has made a point that's well worth keeping in mind, people. Yes,, there are some of us who have been around awhile. Quite awhile. And there are some of us who are just getting into this. Okay. For the record. The V1 is a superior camera, clearly. Douglas and others have spent a lot of time and trouble informing us of that fact. Heck, if it weren't for his articles, I wouldn't have even thought of the FX7 as an alternative at all. By telling you all of my tales as a beginning FX7 user (not a beginning videographer), I was hoping to share with a lot of you guys, , new and old, the incredible rush and joy I felt with the handling of a new tool (or toy, call it what you will) that I feel is very special. To me. To all the new kids on the block: Welcome! The word 'superior' means better. The word better means "gooder", more good. And the word good, as we all know, is open, wide open, to interpretation. In the case of my FX7, well, you can see mine. I've laid it out for you. In the light of my owning 35mm and 16mm film equipment, light meters, and, Douglas is quite correct, one of my good mates is a pro sound guy with wireless doodads hanging out the wazoo (who was very amused when I handed him an 1/8" extension cord, by the way - up until the time he heard the audio coming off the FX7... and then his mind started working on how he could get it to sound better... LOL!!! The human spirit, I tell ya...) Read all you can. Spotted Eagle 's articles especially . No, I'm not kidding. You should read them all. I did. Then you should talk to others who own the cameras you're considering, and then maybe take a leaf out of my book and go try them out. Hold one in your hand and figure out from looking at it up close and in person what people like Douglas are talking about. At least get an introduction to them all, make a passing acquaintance. Then see which one grabs you and doesn't let go. Naturally, you'll find that you should gravitate towards the winner of the technological polls, the most popular, the likeliest to succeed. . Especially since you are new on the block. Cool. If you like how it feels. If you don't then your camera will stay at home because it's too long, too small, too heavy, has too many menus, has not enough menus, has too many knobs, is the wrong color, whatever. Then when you're out on the street thinking about how the camera could have been better, wham - opportunity knocks. The perfect shot appears. easy grabbing, just point it and shoot it. Camera's at home. In the car. Lent to your nephew to make a school movie. Oops. Oh well. Been there, done that. And guess what? The reason I wrote this thread in the first place is because I don't want that to happen to you. I want to see the incredible stuff that walked by and knocked you on you ass so that you just HAD to get that shot. And I want that camera in your hand so you can get it for me to see. (not quite as selfless as I seem, am I?? LOL!) Okay. Now to everybody, especially us older geezers who ought to know better. The more we knock around with this stuff, the more it becomes familiar, a known quantity, a piece of cake. In the beginning, it was a real struggle to get to grips with all the technology, to learn it, then learn it well, then master it. And why did we learn to master it? So that the technology became transparent. It didn't interfere with the creative process. A musician practices endlessly so that when it's time to perform, or improvise, the skill set is so well learnt that technology (embrochure, stroke, parradiddle, come on, technology's been with us in one form or another ever since someone came up with a better rock) ceases to be a limiting factor, but becomes a part of the creative process. What this means to us and the FX7 or like cameras is that we'd better know all about each and every parameter in the cameras we use, because when it comes time for that shot, and the subject is approaching the optimum background and it's time to line the camera up - now , or the crew's all waiting and the sun just went behind a cloud, that would not exactly be the best time on the planet to go poking around a menu or cracking open the manual. No, it's time for think about it, go, aha - turn the cinema gamma off (or on), and two seconds later, you're up and running. Or, if you're like me, you'd be laying in bed going, "well? should I put this or that control onto my custom buttons, just in case?" and then you'd get out of bed, program the blessed button, try it out... So it's a double edged sword, this technology stuff. If can reach out and cut the hardest things with ease - and it can cut your own hand off if you're not careful w. You have to practice to get good. So you spend your time practicing to get good. And then you get really good, but now you're shooting for someone else who just spent the same amount of time thinking about what to shoot, not how to shoot it. So many different roads to follow, so many trails to trails to blaze. After a while, it all can get so... so... blah. One more TV show to work on. One more movie that isn't mine. One more shoot where I'm teaching a kid the ropes. I tell you now, and I've shared with you now. That little camera gets my heart rate up again. 'cause it got me looking out again, instead of looking in.