How bad is it to use my V1U as the recorder and also for playback? at DVinfo.net

Trey Dillen · April 9th, 2007, 04:33 PM

The v1u is my first piece of professional equipment. I used to use consumer sony camcorders and use them for recording and also for the playback. Can i continue to do this with my V1u without damaging the camera, or do i need to save up and invest in the DR60 or an HDV deck? Sorry if this sounds like an amateur question, but the truth is...i am an amateur.

Don Bloom · April 9th, 2007, 05:30 PM

well the worst thing you'll do by using the cam as a playback and/or recording deck is to put lots more hours on the heads BUT if that's the only option you have right now then I guess you don't have much choice. Personally I would want to try to get a deck as soon as I could BUT it depends on your finances AND how much you actually shoot.

Just my $.03 worth (adjusted for inflation)

Don

Lee Berger · April 9th, 2007, 05:34 PM

It's always better to have a separate deck to capture from. This saves wear and tear on your camera. Having said that, you can minimize the wear by capturing a full tape or large segments. Shuttling back and forth to select individual scenes for capture will certainly put the strain on your camera. Playing through is not so stressful. This works best in documentary where you may want a lot of footage on line to choose from. Editing software such as Adobe Premiere has the option of creating new files upon camera start and stop. After you capture a full tape you can toss the bad takes (files) to free up hard drive space. I use the Media Manager in Final Cut Studio to copy trimmed subclips (without recompression) and then toss the original files. It's a lot easier to scrub through captured media than to scrub through a tape. In the HDV mode FCP adds the create new files upon stop and start option.

Marco Wagner · April 9th, 2007, 06:14 PM

That's kind of the way I do it as well. Capture the whole tape, sometimes while watching with a excel spreadsheet open to notate certain sections. Then later I go back in Premiere and use the razor like a serial killer. THEN output the saved scenes to the same format without recompression. The result is a few 100MB or couple GB vs 13GB or going through the tape over and over again...

Trey Dillen · April 9th, 2007, 07:18 PM

so basically what you guys are saying is that it is best to have a deck, but if i cannot afford the deck or external HD (DR60) at the moment, i should capture the whole tape at once and delete things on the computer rather than fast forwarding and rewinding to capture only the good footage. ( less strain on the recording heads).....am i correct?

Chris Medico · April 9th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trey Dillen

so basically what you guys are saying is that it is best to have a deck, but if i cannot afford the deck or external HD (DR60) at the moment, i should capture the whole tape at once and delete things on the computer rather than fast forwarding and rewinding to capture only the good footage. ( less strain on the recording heads).....am i correct?

One thing to consider is buying a HC5 for a playback deck. This will also give you a cam for shooting insert footage. I do that now with my HC3 and it works great. Its a much lower cost option than buying one of the dedicated decks.

Chris

Marcus Marchesseault · April 9th, 2007, 07:30 PM

Buying a $3000 deck to save wear on a $4000 camera that could probably have the mechanism replaced for about $500 doesn't seem to make sense. I like the cheap HDV cam as a deck/backup and capture entire tape ideas. Also, put your camera back in it's case after capturing. Sitting out on a desk for days at a time between shoots will cause more dust problems than going outside for a couple of hours. The little things can add up over time to be worse than periodic moderate contamination.

Marco Wagner · April 9th, 2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Also, put your camera back in it's case after capturing. Sitting out on a desk for days at a time between shoots will cause more dust problems than going outside for a couple of hours. The little things can add up over time to be worse than periodic moderate contamination.

YES! I also make sure the transport door never stays open longer than it takes to take the tape out or put it in. I never let the tape cage "snap" out like it does on VX2100, A1U, and Canon's XLs -I hate that! I simply put my fingers loosely on it to let it gently thud against my fingers rather than the huge "pop". I try to do the same with tapes, never exposing them to anything but the inside of the camera or the jewl case. I bought an air compressor and lightly blow dust from every crack on my cams as well.

Unless you shoot for a living, buying a deck or another multi-thousand dollar camera isn't rational. imho Just capture it all on the first once through and chop out the bits you don't want on the computer.

Trey Dillen · April 9th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Thanks a lot for the replies. I really appreciate the quick feedback and the different opinions from each of you. Thanks again.

Piotr Wozniacki · April 9th, 2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Berger

After you capture a full tape you can toss the bad takes (files) to free up hard drive space. I use the Media Manager in Final Cut Studio to copy trimmed subclips (without recompression) and then toss the original files.

Lee, do you know how to copy (save) trimmed subclips without recompression in Vegas?

Steve Mullen · April 9th, 2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Buying a $3000 deck to save wear on a $4000 camera that could probably have the mechanism replaced for about $500 doesn't seem to make sense.

A great point! By the time the heads wear out, it's likely you will have already sold your FX7 on eBay because the new Blu-ray camcorder will be what you'll be using. :)

Marcus Marchesseault · April 10th, 2007, 01:35 AM

Add to that the facts that you can use a hard-drive system connected to the firewire or even a second HDV camcorder (done that with DV) and being crazy about the heads in your V1 isn't worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, reduce wear when possible, but the magic in this camera isn't the DV/HDV deck. It has firewire and HDMI output that can be used in place of the tape mechanism.

Glenn Davidson · April 10th, 2007, 02:07 AM

I have found some benefits to the addition of a Sony M15 deck, Like:

1) It's always connected. I don't have to power cycle to connect or risk blowing out the firewire.
2) Uses DVCAM tapes for long archive or exchange with other editors.
3) Sits neatly on desk, I don't have to worry about catching a wire and pulling it onto the floor.
4) My FX1 sits protected in it's case waiting for its next gig.
5) Composite, S-video, componet, FW ins and outs on one panel,makes a great pass through device or patch point for various video devices
6) Looks cool..Impresses that LADIES!

I think if you can afford it, get a deck.

Lee Berger · April 10th, 2007, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Lee, do you know how to copy (save) trimmed subclips without recompression in Vegas?

Sorry Piotr, but I don't use Vegas. Perhaps Douglas Spotted Eagle can help.

Piotr Wozniacki · April 10th, 2007, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Berger

Sorry Piotr, but I don't use Vegas. Perhaps Douglas Spotted Eagle can help.

In fact, it doesn't need to be Vegas. In my DV days, I had a freeware utility to do just that: cut and trim, or merge clips and output them as a single clip in exactly the same format (AVI type I), without recompression. Fast and lossless! Does anyone knows how to do it with HDV .m2t clips? A standalone utility, or Premiere, Edius, Vegas - I just can't find the right tool! Am I missing something?

April 9th, 2007, 04:33 PM	#1
Trey Dillen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA / Athens, GA Posts: 36	How bad is it to use my V1U as the recorder and also for playback? The v1u is my first piece of professional equipment. I used to use consumer sony camcorders and use them for recording and also for the playback. Can i continue to do this with my V1u without damaging the camera, or do i need to save up and invest in the DR60 or an HDV deck? Sorry if this sounds like an amateur question, but the truth is...i am an amateur.

April 9th, 2007, 06:14 PM	#4
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	That's kind of the way I do it as well. Capture the whole tape, sometimes while watching with a excel spreadsheet open to notate certain sections. Then later I go back in Premiere and use the razor like a serial killer. THEN output the saved scenes to the same format without recompression. The result is a few 100MB or couple GB vs 13GB or going through the tape over and over again... __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

April 9th, 2007, 07:18 PM	#5
Trey Dillen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA / Athens, GA Posts: 36	sooo so basically what you guys are saying is that it is best to have a deck, but if i cannot afford the deck or external HD (DR60) at the moment, i should capture the whole tape at once and delete things on the computer rather than fast forwarding and rewinding to capture only the good footage. ( less strain on the recording heads).....am i correct?

April 9th, 2007, 08:56 PM	#9
Trey Dillen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA / Athens, GA Posts: 36	Thanks a lot Thanks a lot for the replies. I really appreciate the quick feedback and the different opinions from each of you. Thanks again.

April 9th, 2007, 05:30 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	well the worst thing you'll do by using the cam as a playback and/or recording deck is to put lots more hours on the heads BUT if that's the only option you have right now then I guess you don't have much choice. Personally I would want to try to get a deck as soon as I could BUT it depends on your finances AND how much you actually shoot. Just my $.03 worth (adjusted for inflation) Don

April 9th, 2007, 05:34 PM	#3
Lee Berger Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 326	It's always better to have a separate deck to capture from. This saves wear and tear on your camera. Having said that, you can minimize the wear by capturing a full tape or large segments. Shuttling back and forth to select individual scenes for capture will certainly put the strain on your camera. Playing through is not so stressful. This works best in documentary where you may want a lot of footage on line to choose from. Editing software such as Adobe Premiere has the option of creating new files upon camera start and stop. After you capture a full tape you can toss the bad takes (files) to free up hard drive space. I use the Media Manager in Final Cut Studio to copy trimmed subclips (without recompression) and then toss the original files. It's a lot easier to scrub through captured media than to scrub through a tape. In the HDV mode FCP adds the create new files upon stop and start option.

April 9th, 2007, 07:30 PM	#7
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Buying a $3000 deck to save wear on a $4000 camera that could probably have the mechanism replaced for about $500 doesn't seem to make sense. I like the cheap HDV cam as a deck/backup and capture entire tape ideas. Also, put your camera back in it's case after capturing. Sitting out on a desk for days at a time between shoots will cause more dust problems than going outside for a couple of hours. The little things can add up over time to be worse than periodic moderate contamination.

April 10th, 2007, 01:35 AM	#12
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Add to that the facts that you can use a hard-drive system connected to the firewire or even a second HDV camcorder (done that with DV) and being crazy about the heads in your V1 isn't worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, reduce wear when possible, but the magic in this camera isn't the DV/HDV deck. It has firewire and HDMI output that can be used in place of the tape mechanism.

April 10th, 2007, 02:07 AM	#13
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	I have found some benefits to the addition of a Sony M15 deck, Like: 1) It's always connected. I don't have to power cycle to connect or risk blowing out the firewire. 2) Uses DVCAM tapes for long archive or exchange with other editors. 3) Sits neatly on desk, I don't have to worry about catching a wire and pulling it onto the floor. 4) My FX1 sits protected in it's case waiting for its next gig. 5) Composite, S-video, componet, FW ins and outs on one panel,makes a great pass through device or patch point for various video devices 6) Looks cool..Impresses that LADIES! I think if you can afford it, get a deck.