Circular Polarizing Filter? at DVinfo.net

Bob Buruchian · March 14th, 2007, 09:07 PM

I purchased a 62mm circular polarizing filter (formatt) and it won't fit with the V1U standard lens shade.

Does anyone have an inexpensive suggestion I'm guessing no shade will present some issues and not ready for a matte box expenditure.

Thanks

Bob

John Jackman · March 14th, 2007, 09:32 PM

This is true of the z1u design too, can't really use filters easily. Also, a circular polarizing filter is the wrong choice for video -- you need a non-circular polarizer for best performance. But that doesn't solve the design problem.

Gareth Watkins · March 15th, 2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Buruchian

I purchased a 62mm circular polarizing filter (formatt) and it won't fit with the V1U standard lens shade.

Does anyone have an inexpensive suggestion I'm guessing no shade will present some issues and not ready for a matte box expenditure.

In the long run some form of matte box is useful if you want to use filters regulary...The need shading if you want th ebest results.. also if you change cameras the 4x4 filters will always fit the new one...

Quote:

This is true of the z1u design too, can't really use filters easily. Also, a circular polarizing filter is the wrong choice for video -- you need a non-circular polarizer for best performance. But that doesn't solve the design problem.

I read everywhere prior to getting a polorizer the opposite.. that you do need a circular one for video...that's the one that came in my Schneider DV filter set... works fine;

cheers
Gareth

Marcus Marchesseault · March 15th, 2007, 08:04 AM

I came across an article that said that the circular polarizers aren't needed very often because the method of auto-focus that needs that isn't as common. I tested my VX2000 and it is fine with a regular polarizer.

I HIGHLY suggest that people with moderate budgets look into the Cokin filter system. The Cokin P fits just fin on 72mm cameras and the filters range from dirt cheap up to about $150. I got my glass polarizer for about $40. It fits in a special slot in the filter holder that allows it to rotate. There are also hoods available. I think it will be just fine to use filters from 35mm cameras as HD is far below the resolution of 35mm.

I can't convey how simple this system is to use. It is very much like a standard mattebox system for under $100 including polarizer and a gradual ND filter. I got the rigid square lens shades and they do a decent job. They can be stacked to make them deeper. Don't forget to get a drop-in lens cap and filter carrier if you get a few filters. I got a couple of gradual ND filters and plan to get some blank/clear filters for protecting the lens and some solid ND for really bright days when I don't want to use the polarizer.

Stephen Armour · March 16th, 2007, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Buruchian

I purchased a 62mm circular polarizing filter (formatt) and it won't fit with the V1U standard lens shade.

Does anyone have an inexpensive suggestion I'm guessing no shade will present some issues and not ready for a matte box expenditure.

Thanks

Bob

I just stuck a new Tiffen circular polarizer on our V1 yesterday, and at first the shade wouldn't fit over it. I cussed Sony up one side and down the other!

Later, we tightened it a bit more and suddenly the crazy almost useless thing slid over it! I swear I had it tight the first time, but .... try a little tighter...you never know...

BTW, we could reach it to adjust it's angle by very carefully reaching inside and spinning it. A pencil eraser or little stick would work great, but only very carefully.

Stu Holmes · March 16th, 2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

I came across an article that said that the circular polarizers aren't needed very often because the method of auto-focus that needs that isn't as common. I tested my VX2000 and it is fine with a regular polarizer.

I think you're right. It's a misconception that linear polarisers won't work with autofocus systems. I think it's SLR autofocus systems that are generally the problem with linear polarisers.

Greg Quinn · March 16th, 2007, 02:52 PM

FYI, I'm using a Hoya Pro1 Digital circular polarizer, which has a low profile frame and fits with the lens hood attached.

I recall being surprised many years ago when I heard that these were being called circular polarizers, since it implies that they're simply quarter wave plates, which they're not (they're linear polarizers with a quarter wave plate bonded to them).

Nick Fernandez · March 18th, 2007, 09:18 AM

Hi guys,

Just been back from shooting in a very hot country. With many dark faces giving back very hard hits of specular reflection in the highlights, the circular polariser gave me the option to turn up or turn down the level of cut I was getting out of the filter, so travelling without a light kit the circ pol provided some much needed extra control. I know this is very specific but in general I have worked with fixed pols and circ pols on these little cams, and if you are running manual focus and have time on the fly to set the filter, I cannot a see any reason to go a stright polariser as somtimes the full filter effect is just too much for the sake of naturalism. However if your going to be on the move and need some autofocus moments then the circular can be tricky, so i'd stay clear.

Thnks also for the info on lower profiled filters as the nonfit issue is a real pain.

Well thats my little contribution. Good luck with your choices.

Nick

Giroud Francois · March 18th, 2007, 02:55 PM

I use the slim hoya filter on a FX1 too. I choosed it because the low profile that allow to keep the original sunshade.
I made a slot with a cutter into a corner of the sunshade and put a wheel that allow me to rotate the filter inside the sunshade.
it was tricky since i was cutting blind into the sunshade and was afraide to damage the mechanism allowing to close the sunshade.
it appears that you can cut a small slot into the bottom rigth corner of the sunshade (when looking inside the sunshade from the rear)
Since it is plastic, you can easily glue an axis to keep the wheel pressing the edge of the filter.
I used a glue for PVC that "melt" low density plastic.
The wheel is a very thin metallic one and i glued on it (cyanoacrylate glue) a piece of rubber cut from an o-ring
http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola1.jpg
http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola2.jpg
http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola3.jpg

it does not look really nice (it was a first prototype) but it is very efficient with minimal impact on the camera.

Zsolt Gordos · March 18th, 2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

I made a slot with a cutter into a corner of the sunshade and put a wheel that allow me to rotate the filter inside the sunshade.

Since I have been reading this thread, I was thinking how on earth could people place a circular polarizer under the sunshade...
Even if its possible it makes no sense as polar filter has to be turned around to get the effect.
Without the slot mentioned above, polar cannot be used with the sunshade.

Zsolt Gordos · March 18th, 2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

I HIGHLY suggest that people with moderate budgets look into the Cokin filter system.

Let me add, Cokin has a cool (and affordable) matte box, which works with Cokin Z series filter system.
I own this matte box, pretty good, comes with French flag and you can also use Cokins polar filter in it.
You may check it out here:

http://cokin.com/ico6-mattebox.html

Nick Fernandez · March 18th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Hi again,

This matte looks good... how much was it?

Nick

Zsolt Gordos · March 19th, 2007, 07:00 PM

It was 349,- Euro plus VAT in a kit containing a couple of filters, too.

Stephen Armour · March 20th, 2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos

Since I have been reading this thread, I was thinking how on earth could people place a circular polarizer under the sunshade...
Even if its possible it makes no sense as polar filter has to be turned around to get the effect.
Without the slot mentioned above, polar cannot be used with the sunshade.

Zsolt, I can reach enough of the knurled ring from the front to turn it with a fingernail, or better, a little stick or pensil eraser. It turns fairly easily, but seems to stay in position once it's spun. I'm using a 62 mm Tiffen Warm Linear Polarizing glass filter and it works very well.

Marcus Marchesseault · March 20th, 2007, 06:56 PM

"Without the slot mentioned above, polar cannot be used with the sunshade."

I wouldn't say you can't use a polarizer, but it is very inconvenient. I really like that device you made, Zsolt!

March 14th, 2007, 09:07 PM	#1
Bob Buruchian New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 13	Circular Polarizing Filter? I purchased a 62mm circular polarizing filter (formatt) and it won't fit with the V1U standard lens shade. Does anyone have an inexpensive suggestion I'm guessing no shade will present some issues and not ready for a matte box expenditure. Thanks Bob

March 14th, 2007, 09:32 PM	#2
John Jackman Great DV dot com Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lewisville, NC Posts: 78	This is true of the z1u design too, can't really use filters easily. Also, a circular polarizing filter is the wrong choice for video -- you need a non-circular polarizer for best performance. But that doesn't solve the design problem. __________________ John Jackman www.johnjackman.com

March 18th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#8
Nick Fernandez New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: london Posts: 20	Circ Pols - Provide more control but are not great in auto mode Hi guys, Just been back from shooting in a very hot country. With many dark faces giving back very hard hits of specular reflection in the highlights, the circular polariser gave me the option to turn up or turn down the level of cut I was getting out of the filter, so travelling without a light kit the circ pol provided some much needed extra control. I know this is very specific but in general I have worked with fixed pols and circ pols on these little cams, and if you are running manual focus and have time on the fly to set the filter, I cannot a see any reason to go a stright polariser as somtimes the full filter effect is just too much for the sake of naturalism. However if your going to be on the move and need some autofocus moments then the circular can be tricky, so i'd stay clear. Thnks also for the info on lower profiled filters as the nonfit issue is a real pain. Well thats my little contribution. Good luck with your choices. Nick

March 18th, 2007, 07:28 PM	#12
Nick Fernandez New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: london Posts: 20	Matte Box looks good Hi again, This matte looks good... how much was it? Nick

March 19th, 2007, 07:00 PM	#13
Zsolt Gordos Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 414	It was 349,- Euro plus VAT in a kit containing a couple of filters, too. __________________ Sony XDCAM EX1r, Canon 5DMkII, Røde NTG2, Røde NT1000, Røde Stereo Videomic, Sachtler DV6 SB on Gitzo 1325V, Steadicam Merlin, Omnitracker, Hackintosh 3.5Ghz Quad 8Gb RAM

March 15th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#4
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I came across an article that said that the circular polarizers aren't needed very often because the method of auto-focus that needs that isn't as common. I tested my VX2000 and it is fine with a regular polarizer. I HIGHLY suggest that people with moderate budgets look into the Cokin filter system. The Cokin P fits just fin on 72mm cameras and the filters range from dirt cheap up to about $150. I got my glass polarizer for about $40. It fits in a special slot in the filter holder that allows it to rotate. There are also hoods available. I think it will be just fine to use filters from 35mm cameras as HD is far below the resolution of 35mm. I can't convey how simple this system is to use. It is very much like a standard mattebox system for under $100 including polarizer and a gradual ND filter. I got the rigid square lens shades and they do a decent job. They can be stacked to make them deeper. Don't forget to get a drop-in lens cap and filter carrier if you get a few filters. I got a couple of gradual ND filters and plan to get some blank/clear filters for protecting the lens and some solid ND for really bright days when I don't want to use the polarizer.

March 16th, 2007, 02:52 PM	#7
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	FYI, I'm using a Hoya Pro1 Digital circular polarizer, which has a low profile frame and fits with the lens hood attached. I recall being surprised many years ago when I heard that these were being called circular polarizers, since it implies that they're simply quarter wave plates, which they're not (they're linear polarizers with a quarter wave plate bonded to them).

March 18th, 2007, 02:55 PM	#9
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	I use the slim hoya filter on a FX1 too. I choosed it because the low profile that allow to keep the original sunshade. I made a slot with a cutter into a corner of the sunshade and put a wheel that allow me to rotate the filter inside the sunshade. it was tricky since i was cutting blind into the sunshade and was afraide to damage the mechanism allowing to close the sunshade. it appears that you can cut a small slot into the bottom rigth corner of the sunshade (when looking inside the sunshade from the rear) Since it is plastic, you can easily glue an axis to keep the wheel pressing the edge of the filter. I used a glue for PVC that "melt" low density plastic. The wheel is a very thin metallic one and i glued on it (cyanoacrylate glue) a piece of rubber cut from an o-ring http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola1.jpg http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola2.jpg http://www.giroud2.com/divers/pola3.jpg it does not look really nice (it was a first prototype) but it is very efficient with minimal impact on the camera.

March 20th, 2007, 06:56 PM	#15
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"Without the slot mentioned above, polar cannot be used with the sunshade." I wouldn't say you can't use a polarizer, but it is very inconvenient. I really like that device you made, Zsolt!