How PsF video from the V1 is different than "p" or "F" video

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Bob -- thank you. Previously, you mentioned that the P-flag was not being set in your exports.

Then I read this from from Michael -- "I just use the 1080/50i set to progressive and it produces a playable M2t that is progressive. I play it in VLC as progressive with no problems."

What were you trying trying to export?

How did you do this?

How did you find the P-flag wasn't being set?

Michael -- I'm confused by "1080/50i set to progressive." Do you mean you CHANGED the Field seting for a 1080/50i preset to NONE?

Steve, further on PTTing the progressive output back to the V1E. As I mentioned before, Sony Vegas is smart enough and when you point it to a file that was rendered from 1080i50/25p as progressive, it will print it to tape but in segments (ie. convert it back to 1080i). Today I tried to cheat my V1E and used the Canopus TS Writer (a tool that comes with Edius). Even though it looks like it is printing a progressive clip, *NOTHING* goes to tape actually, apart from the time code!

[Bob Grant]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Steve, Bob, Michael at al,

My impression is that we have started repeating what has already been said on the main subject. I realize I have my own, private agenda (of choosing the best cam for myself), please accept my apologies for that. I'd like to re-ask the question: whatever you call it Steve (1080/25PsF or 1080i50/25p), don't you agree that the V1E progressive material isn't "flawed" per se, but simply is not being correctly displayed? What we have is each of 25 frames per second written as two fields (or segments), taken in the same moment of time, one containing the odd lines and the other - the even ones. Now, to get back a full 1080 lines frame, both segments should not be "deinterlaced" (this process always assumes some method of approaching the temporal difference between fields), but displayed at the same time (weaved). This is evidently not the case, when the V1E is connected through HDMI or component to a progressive display. The fields are bobbed, which pronounces the aliasing effects present in the material.

The experiment with the 1080-line chart from Bob confirmed that it can be displayed correctly, without aliasing, as long as no deinterlacing is engaged. Bobbing it leads to horrible flicker (even worse than with the 25p material from the V1E, as we have fields of 1080 not just 540 lines being bobbed).

All the above is my understanding of the problem. If I'm missing something, please correct me.

You've not missed anything. This discussion has gone around and around and perhaps remarkably enough has ended back with what Steve said when he started it, the problem is in the display device(s)!

Is it the 'best' camera for your needs, only you can decide that. Maybe all that extra resolution and the problems most current displays have with it is going to be more grief than you'd like to deal with. This is really your call. All I can say is resolution always goes downhill in the post process, so the more real detail you have to start with the better. After all you can reduce detail in post, you cannot add it back if it wasn't recorded by the camera. On top of that displays are getting better and I'd think having as much resolution as possible to feed them would be a good thing.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks Bob for your confirmation! Cause you see, at some point I got lost with all the extra information from Steve...

Anyway, you're absolutely right it's always better to start with as much resolution as possible (even if it cannot handled properly by most viewing devices), and than post-process with the chosen delivery method in view.
Obviously, my own exprerience with the A1 clearly shows it's way softer than the V1.

Your confirming the way I understand the problem has dotted the i's and crossed the t's - I'm sold on the V1E.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

30 days, 300 posts...quite a marathon. I feel for the soul that finds this thread in a search. It's generated a *lot* of confusion, but hopefully everyone is clear now. It's a great time to close it down. thanks to everyone for their participation!