Purple outline on background objects

Dave F. Nelson · January 30th, 2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

I used to think there was a fair amount of fringing due to CA on the Sony FX7/V1, but when I see the fringing in almost all shots from the Canon A1/G1, I don't feel so bad. There's a current thread in the A1/G1 section on reducing noise, and in that section there's some posted jpegs. There's some really bad CA (or what looks like CA) on the Canon cams. By comparison, the Sony has a very minimal issue in this area.

The purple fringing in the bike shot above seems different to me than the fringing I'm discussing. The bike fringing is horrific and would drive me nuts if I saw it. It almost looks like 'blooming' on a CRT that's been overdriven.

I don't have a V1U but plan to buy one. I have owned an XL-H1 for quite some time and the fringing is my number one complaint about the XL-H1. I have been wrestling with this problem ever since I bought the XL-H1. I tried Canon's new 6X lens but it still has some red and green fringing problems, although not as bad as the 20x lens. The Canon A1 and G1 share this problem with the XL-H1 so I would never consider purchasing either one.

This red and green fringing problem is a very big deal to me because we plan to do a film-out for our next project.

I have been evaluating V1U footage for quite some time. We have decided to purchase one V1U after NAB. And after we have completed our tests, if the fringing is indeed less than the XL-H1, and I think it will be, we plan to sell the XL-H1 and buy two more V1Us.

The V1U footage I have seen to date, has this red and green fringing problem too, but not nearly as much as my XL-H1. I believe the V1U is superior to the XL-H1 in this, and all other ways that are important to us for our upcoming film project, even though I love many things about the XL-H1.

What's keeping us from purchasing a V1U now is that I believe that Sony has a new 24p 1/3" 3 cmos model (a direct competitor to the XL-H1 and JVC HD100/110, with interchangable lenses) ready for NAB, and we can wait until later this year for cameras for our new film project. Afterall, we still have the XL-H1 and a Z1U to complete pickups for our current project.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thomas Smet · January 30th, 2007, 07:22 PM

Guys the fringing isn't just a HDV thing. I have a 2/3" DSR-500 camera which is DVCAM and I have noticed this for years when shooting against bright white backgrounds that are over exposed. This is just something we have to deal with. I have yet to see a HDV camera that doesn't do this. You need some pretty highend glass to get rid of this. Glass that will cost well into the tens of thousands of dollars.

There are however ways to reduce it by taking care on how you shoot certain subjects.

Brian Rhodes · January 30th, 2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Rhodes

Starting to edit my first shoot done with the V1u in 24p mode. I noticed a purple outline on people standing in the background and next to the windows on the Boat. Also a purple outline around the window. Whats causing this is it my Iris setting?

CLIPS WMV FORMAT

http://www.dvdaction.net/index_007.htm

Simon Hunt · February 1st, 2007, 09:05 PM

Hello? Anyone? Has anyone tried the "knee level"? It works well with the HDW-F900. Except there we use a "CCU" with a manual adjustment, and you can dial in the amount you want. It's helpful in situations like the previously posted clip that was shot on the boat. It also can help when shooting interiors with bright windows in the BG that get overexposed. This can reduce the color fringing and apparent CA effect sometimes by "clamping" down the top 1/3 of the IRE. It is easily noticeable on a waveform.

Someone want to give it a try with the VIU and post the results, with and without?

John Bosco Jr. · February 2nd, 2007, 04:25 AM

I reviewed the sample jpegs and saw the video.

I agree with most who say that the excessive CA was caused by overexposed video. Unfortunately, the V1 doesn't over a lot of ND, but had the ND been used, I feel the CA would not have been so pronounced. All the other wide shot samples I've seen, the CA is barely noticeable on the V1, unlike the canon A1, where it is present in every wide shot. Thus, I feel that these samples are not set up correctly and are poor examples of the capabilities of this camera. One thought, correct me if I'm wrong, would the backlight compensator along with the ND filter, not only reduce the highly overexposed background but also brighten up the foreground?

As far as CA is concerned, I agree with another comment on this thread that you are not going to virtually eliminate it without adding an expensive lens. Since an expensive lens will hinder the camera's low light capabilities, you need larger chips. Gee I guess that's why the V1 is under $5k and the XDCAM is over $20k.

Peace all

Bob Grant · February 2nd, 2007, 05:04 AM

The only way to fix those original shots is to reduce the difference between the brightest (the light coming in the windows) and the darkest parts of the frame. There's two ways to do this. Gell the windows with ND gells or bump up the light on the talent and in the room.
Adding ND in front of the lens will just make everything darker, the Backlight setting in the camera will give you a shot around the same as what was posted.

Brian Rhodes · February 2nd, 2007, 06:42 AM

John the built in ND filter on the V1U was in use. Also correct me if I am wrong the back light and spot light feature can not be used in manual mode on the V1U. This feature can be used on the Z1U and FX1 in manual or auto mode. I never notice fringing on shots taking with my Z1U if it was there it was not noticeable.

I read on article on the making of an HBO special were an XDCAM was used. The Cam or Lens also experienced Fringing.

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/ca..._hd/index.html

“The new Canon 21X 5.7 IRSE 1/2in. optics lens performed well with the F350, with the exception of some blue and yellow fringing near the edges of the frame in some shots—especially high-detail wide-angle scenes.”

I love V1u but I guess its just knowing what to do and when to do it . The more you shot the more you learn. I plan to purchase a second V1U next month.

John Bosco Jr. · February 3rd, 2007, 01:23 AM

Brian,

You can use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode with limitations on the V1. You can only manually adjust either the iris, gain or shutter with backlight compensator or spotlight on. If you manually adjust two or more of the above functions, you cannot use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode. By the way, the backlight compensator and spotlight functions are menu items; you might want to assign them to one of the six or three assignable buttons.

As far as the CA comment, admittingly, the XDCAM was a bad example. My point was the better the lens, the less you see CA (in theory of course).

Peace
John

Brian Rhodes · February 4th, 2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bosco Jr.

Brian,

You can use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode with limitations on the V1. You can only manually adjust either the iris, gain or shutter with backlight compensator or spotlight on. If you manually adjust two or more of the above functions, you cannot use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode. By the way, the backlight compensator and spotlight functions are menu items; you might want to assign them to one of the six or three assignable buttons.

As far as the CA comment, admittingly, the XDCAM was a bad example. My point was the better the lens, the less you see CA (in theory of course).

Peace
John

I read the same thing in the V1u manual when I first recieved my cam. I assigned a button to each function neither one worked in manual mode.
(see post)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=82539

Steve Mullen · February 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Rhodes

I read the same thing in the V1u manual when I first recieved my cam. I assigned a button to each function neither one worked in manual mode.
(see post)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=82539

I did the same.

The limitation "You can only manually adjust either the iris, gain or shutter" IF you want to engage the backlight compensator or spotlight -- comes into play when you engage E1 or E2. Sony assumes you'll simply adjust exposure as needed.

February 2nd, 2007, 04:25 AM	#35
John Bosco Jr. Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pinellas Park Posts: 232	Blooming Video I reviewed the sample jpegs and saw the video. I agree with most who say that the excessive CA was caused by overexposed video. Unfortunately, the V1 doesn't over a lot of ND, but had the ND been used, I feel the CA would not have been so pronounced. All the other wide shot samples I've seen, the CA is barely noticeable on the V1, unlike the canon A1, where it is present in every wide shot. Thus, I feel that these samples are not set up correctly and are poor examples of the capabilities of this camera. One thought, correct me if I'm wrong, would the backlight compensator along with the ND filter, not only reduce the highly overexposed background but also brighten up the foreground? As far as CA is concerned, I agree with another comment on this thread that you are not going to virtually eliminate it without adding an expensive lens. Since an expensive lens will hinder the camera's low light capabilities, you need larger chips. Gee I guess that's why the V1 is under $5k and the XDCAM is over $20k. Peace all

February 3rd, 2007, 01:23 AM	#38
John Bosco Jr. Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pinellas Park Posts: 232	Backlight/Spotlight Compensator Brian, You can use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode with limitations on the V1. You can only manually adjust either the iris, gain or shutter with backlight compensator or spotlight on. If you manually adjust two or more of the above functions, you cannot use the backlight compensator or spotlight in manual mode. By the way, the backlight compensator and spotlight functions are menu items; you might want to assign them to one of the six or three assignable buttons. As far as the CA comment, admittingly, the XDCAM was a bad example. My point was the better the lens, the less you see CA (in theory of course). Peace John

January 30th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#32
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Guys the fringing isn't just a HDV thing. I have a 2/3" DSR-500 camera which is DVCAM and I have noticed this for years when shooting against bright white backgrounds that are over exposed. This is just something we have to deal with. I have yet to see a HDV camera that doesn't do this. You need some pretty highend glass to get rid of this. Glass that will cost well into the tens of thousands of dollars. There are however ways to reduce it by taking care on how you shoot certain subjects.

February 1st, 2007, 09:05 PM	#34
Simon Hunt New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 24	Hello? Anyone? Has anyone tried the "knee level"? It works well with the HDW-F900. Except there we use a "CCU" with a manual adjustment, and you can dial in the amount you want. It's helpful in situations like the previously posted clip that was shot on the boat. It also can help when shooting interiors with bright windows in the BG that get overexposed. This can reduce the color fringing and apparent CA effect sometimes by "clamping" down the top 1/3 of the IRE. It is easily noticeable on a waveform. Someone want to give it a try with the VIU and post the results, with and without?

February 2nd, 2007, 05:04 AM	#36
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	The only way to fix those original shots is to reduce the difference between the brightest (the light coming in the windows) and the darkest parts of the frame. There's two ways to do this. Gell the windows with ND gells or bump up the light on the talent and in the room. Adding ND in front of the lens will just make everything darker, the Backlight setting in the camera will give you a shot around the same as what was posted.

February 2nd, 2007, 06:42 AM	#37
Brian Rhodes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 753	John the built in ND filter on the V1U was in use. Also correct me if I am wrong the back light and spot light feature can not be used in manual mode on the V1U. This feature can be used on the Z1U and FX1 in manual or auto mode. I never notice fringing on shots taking with my Z1U if it was there it was not noticeable. I read on article on the making of an HBO special were an XDCAM was used. The Cam or Lens also experienced Fringing. http://digitalcontentproducer.com/ca..._hd/index.html “The new Canon 21X 5.7 IRSE 1/2in. optics lens performed well with the F350, with the exception of some blue and yellow fringing near the edges of the frame in some shots—especially high-detail wide-angle scenes.” I love V1u but I guess its just knowing what to do and when to do it . The more you shot the more you learn. I plan to purchase a second V1U next month.