Help on cameras at DVinfo.net

John Griffin · January 17th, 2007, 09:39 AM

With the V1U i see that you can record hdv, dv, dvcam, etc. So to do 16:9, is that all done in post? If you film in hdv can it be captured in dv, does it matter? Does it make the video look better? Sorry for the numerous questions, but i thought i had my mind made up with a canon xl1s, but see that everyone going to the HD. I am in the beginning stages of starting up a Fire education program on a local channel. Also i am big into waterfowl hunting and would also like it to maybe film a dvd before long, so i need it to function for both reasons.

Many thanks
John

Marshall Levy · January 17th, 2007, 09:48 AM

The V1U can film in 60i, 24p, and 30p, as well as SD-4x3 and SD-16x9, in DV and DVCAM. When filming HDV, it's obviously the 16x9 format.

You can transport the video from the camera to your system via conversion from the camera. I edit native HDV to maintain resolution and give the client one (or both) of two choices; SD-DVD based on HDV>DV conversion or BlueRay, full HDV.

As far as filming and making a DVD, you do this with DVD-authoring software; don't use the DVD-recording cameras - the quality and format is too limiting, particularly when comparing it to filming to tape and the inherent resolution.

John Griffin · January 17th, 2007, 09:57 AM

Yes i have the editing software, i am still using ulead media studio pro 7 for right now. Since our local channel is still behind in time everything that wilol get played on air is on vhs. So if i record in HDV i can then convert to dv signal and it will be in 16:9? Is there maybe a way to contact you ???

Thanks
John

Boyd Ostroff · January 17th, 2007, 10:16 AM

John, all of Sony's HDV cameras (Z1, FX1, V1, FX7, A1, HC3, etc) are capable of shooting in high def mode but sending the data out over firewire as regular standard definition DV. In other words, your computer will think it's connected to a regular DV camera.

The default is for this to appear as widescreen (anamorphic 16:9) DV. However, depending on the camera, you may also be able to send it as a widescreen image letterboxed in a 4:3 frame, or a 4:3 image with the left and right sides chopped off. For example, my Z1 can do all of this. But IIRC, the FX7 and V1 only have the choice of letterbox and widescreen.

However on all of these cameras you can also choose to shoot in standard definition DV mode, and then you have the choice of either widescreen or 4:3. The "pro" models (Z1, V1 and A1) also give you the option of shooting in standard definition DVCAM mode.

My experience is that you will get a little better quality by shooting HDV and letting the camera convert it to DV when you capture. This also has the advantage of giving you a high definition tape for future use.

The Z1 is unique in that it also allows you to shoot in both PAL and NTSC formats.

Chris Barcellos · January 17th, 2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

My experience is that you will get a little better quality by shooting HDV and letting the camera convert it to DV when you capture. This also has the advantage of giving you a high definition tape for future use.

I agree with Boyd on this one. Others indicate if you edit in HDV, then down convert the entire project to DV, you have a better result. My experience is that if I am doing a standard definition project from my HDV tape, I get a better result by capturing initially as DV with camera downconvert. The HDV edit with a post down convert seems softer to me.
I admit it could be my technique, or settings in the editing rendering process, but that is my feeling at this point.

Boyd Ostroff · January 17th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Sorry Chris, I guess I wasn't completely clear. My point was that you should expect better results shooting HDV and downconverting upon capture as opposed to shooting DV in the first place.

I wasn't considering the option of capturing as HDV and downconverting with software because I've never done that myself and I assumed it wasn't an option for John anyway. I know some people believe the best quality comes from HDV capture with software downconversion, but I suspect this is somewhat dependent on what operating system and software you're using.

Eric Johannes · January 17th, 2007, 12:00 PM

I believe the only way to "downconvert" HDV 1080i footage from the camera and capture it in 4:3 (V1U) is to output through the analog cables - it does not allow you to export as 4:3 image through firewire....someone can probably correct me on this.

Chris Medico · January 17th, 2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Johannes

I believe the only way to "downconvert" HDV 1080i footage from the camera and capture it in 4:3 (V1U) is to output through the analog cables - it does not allow you to export as 4:3 image through firewire....someone can probably correct me on this.

You are correct. Anamorphic only on firewire.

Eric Johannes · January 17th, 2007, 12:12 PM

So not to split hairs... but because of this limitation, wouldn't it be best to shoot in DVCAM mode 4:3?

Let me clarify.

If I need to shoot a project and edit it tomorrow using a SD system in 4:3 workspace...would I be better off...

shooting in 1080i and downconverting through analog cables?

Or (My guess) to shoot in DVCAM 4:3 mode and import the DVCAM Mini tape directly into my edit system....at least then I'm dealing with DVCAM signal....vs just analog signal (as would be the case from the V1U output)

I have not done a test...but it makes sense to me that the image clarity gained from shooting 1080i would unfortunately be lost when converting to RCA cables...

I really wish they'd kept the output to firewire alive for one more generation of cameras....some of us are still slow to the 16:9 editing world.

Boyd Ostroff · January 17th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Eric I would agree with your assessment. For your application, just shoot 4:3 DVCAM. Another option, if it's available to you, would be to shoot HDV but use a different camera with the "EDGE CROP" downconvert option (like a Z1) or a Sony HDV deck for capturing.

Chris Medico · January 17th, 2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Johannes

So not to split hairs... but because of this limitation, wouldn't it be best to shoot in DVCAM mode 4:3?

Let me clarify.

If I need to shoot a project and edit it tomorrow using a SD system in 4:3 workspace...would I be better off...

shooting in 1080i and downconverting through analog cables?

Or (My guess) to shoot in DVCAM 4:3 mode and import the DVCAM Mini tape directly into my edit system....at least then I'm dealing with DVCAM signal....vs just analog signal (as would be the case from the V1U output)

I have not done a test...but it makes sense to me that the image clarity gained from shooting 1080i would unfortunately be lost when converting to RCA cables...

I really wish they'd kept the output to firewire alive for one more generation of cameras....some of us are still slow to the 16:9 editing world.

This is my opinion only.. Shoot in HDV with the 4:3 bars on the screen and frame according to the bars. Bring your footage into the comptuer as HDV 16:9 and use your NLE to create 4:3 output.

This is very easy to do with my NLE of choice. Obviously if this is something that will be a huge pain or will take forever to render it will be best to shoot in 4:3 DV.

Chris

Eric Johannes · January 17th, 2007, 12:37 PM

AAHH....this would be great, BUT.

My NLE's (and the current computers running them) are not setup for HDV.

Going slowly into HDV is NOT easy with this camera....it is all or nothing.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 17th, 2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Johannes

AAHH....this would be great, BUT.

My NLE's (and the current computers running them) are not setup for HDV.

Going slowly into HDV is NOT easy with this camera....it is all or nothing.

What NLE are you running? I wasn't aware that an NLE out there couldn't do a 4:3 cut from wide?
Another workflow, but costing more, is to use the V1 to shoot, and use an M15 or M25 to do your crop on capture. Then it all stays real time.

Eric Johannes · January 17th, 2007, 03:24 PM

Media 100 iFinish.

It takes 16:9 in...and I can edit with it...but when it comes to kicking it out to 4:3 - we just haven't had a need for that yet.

What is an M15 or M25? Some kind of aspect ratio conversion box?

I could use a good cheap suggestion on something that can take our Component (3 BNC) signal and convert it to 4:3.

Thanks.

Chris Medico · January 17th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Johannes

Media 100 iFinish.

It takes 16:9 in...and I can edit with it...but when it comes to kicking it out to 4:3 - we just haven't had a need for that yet.

What is an M15 or M25? Some kind of aspect ratio conversion box?

I could use a good cheap suggestion on something that can take our Component (3 BNC) signal and convert it to 4:3.

Thanks.

The M15 and M25 are Sony HDV editing decks. They cost about $2000 and $3000 respectively. They will downconvert to DV and letterbox in real time as Spot has indicated. The M25 will also crop 4:3 from 16:9 in real time.

A system that will take HD component as an input will be as expensive if not more expensive than the M25 deck.

A computer upgrade so you can handle HDV may be the low cost solution.

Chris

January 17th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#1
John Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Woodlawn Ill Posts: 61	Help on cameras With the V1U i see that you can record hdv, dv, dvcam, etc. So to do 16:9, is that all done in post? If you film in hdv can it be captured in dv, does it matter? Does it make the video look better? Sorry for the numerous questions, but i thought i had my mind made up with a canon xl1s, but see that everyone going to the HD. I am in the beginning stages of starting up a Fire education program on a local channel. Also i am big into waterfowl hunting and would also like it to maybe film a dvd before long, so i need it to function for both reasons. Many thanks John

January 17th, 2007, 09:57 AM	#3
John Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Woodlawn Ill Posts: 61	thanks Yes i have the editing software, i am still using ulead media studio pro 7 for right now. Since our local channel is still behind in time everything that wilol get played on air is on vhs. So if i record in HDV i can then convert to dv signal and it will be in 16:9? Is there maybe a way to contact you ??? Thanks John

January 17th, 2007, 09:48 AM	#2
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	The V1U can film in 60i, 24p, and 30p, as well as SD-4x3 and SD-16x9, in DV and DVCAM. When filming HDV, it's obviously the 16x9 format. You can transport the video from the camera to your system via conversion from the camera. I edit native HDV to maintain resolution and give the client one (or both) of two choices; SD-DVD based on HDV>DV conversion or BlueRay, full HDV. As far as filming and making a DVD, you do this with DVD-authoring software; don't use the DVD-recording cameras - the quality and format is too limiting, particularly when comparing it to filming to tape and the inherent resolution.

January 17th, 2007, 10:16 AM	#4
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	John, all of Sony's HDV cameras (Z1, FX1, V1, FX7, A1, HC3, etc) are capable of shooting in high def mode but sending the data out over firewire as regular standard definition DV. In other words, your computer will think it's connected to a regular DV camera. The default is for this to appear as widescreen (anamorphic 16:9) DV. However, depending on the camera, you may also be able to send it as a widescreen image letterboxed in a 4:3 frame, or a 4:3 image with the left and right sides chopped off. For example, my Z1 can do all of this. But IIRC, the FX7 and V1 only have the choice of letterbox and widescreen. However on all of these cameras you can also choose to shoot in standard definition DV mode, and then you have the choice of either widescreen or 4:3. The "pro" models (Z1, V1 and A1) also give you the option of shooting in standard definition DVCAM mode. My experience is that you will get a little better quality by shooting HDV and letting the camera convert it to DV when you capture. This also has the advantage of giving you a high definition tape for future use. The Z1 is unique in that it also allows you to shoot in both PAL and NTSC formats.

January 17th, 2007, 11:53 AM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Sorry Chris, I guess I wasn't completely clear. My point was that you should expect better results shooting HDV and downconverting upon capture as opposed to shooting DV in the first place. I wasn't considering the option of capturing as HDV and downconverting with software because I've never done that myself and I assumed it wasn't an option for John anyway. I know some people believe the best quality comes from HDV capture with software downconversion, but I suspect this is somewhat dependent on what operating system and software you're using.

January 17th, 2007, 12:00 PM	#7
Eric Johannes New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 11	I believe the only way to "downconvert" HDV 1080i footage from the camera and capture it in 4:3 (V1U) is to output through the analog cables - it does not allow you to export as 4:3 image through firewire....someone can probably correct me on this.

January 17th, 2007, 12:12 PM	#9
Eric Johannes New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 11	So not to split hairs... but because of this limitation, wouldn't it be best to shoot in DVCAM mode 4:3? Let me clarify. If I need to shoot a project and edit it tomorrow using a SD system in 4:3 workspace...would I be better off... shooting in 1080i and downconverting through analog cables? Or (My guess) to shoot in DVCAM 4:3 mode and import the DVCAM Mini tape directly into my edit system....at least then I'm dealing with DVCAM signal....vs just analog signal (as would be the case from the V1U output) I have not done a test...but it makes sense to me that the image clarity gained from shooting 1080i would unfortunately be lost when converting to RCA cables... I really wish they'd kept the output to firewire alive for one more generation of cameras....some of us are still slow to the 16:9 editing world.

January 17th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#10
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Eric I would agree with your assessment. For your application, just shoot 4:3 DVCAM. Another option, if it's available to you, would be to shoot HDV but use a different camera with the "EDGE CROP" downconvert option (like a Z1) or a Sony HDV deck for capturing.

January 17th, 2007, 12:37 PM	#12
Eric Johannes New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 11	AAHH....this would be great, BUT. My NLE's (and the current computers running them) are not setup for HDV. Going slowly into HDV is NOT easy with this camera....it is all or nothing.

January 17th, 2007, 03:24 PM	#14
Eric Johannes New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 11	Media 100 iFinish. It takes 16:9 in...and I can edit with it...but when it comes to kicking it out to 4:3 - we just haven't had a need for that yet. What is an M15 or M25? Some kind of aspect ratio conversion box? I could use a good cheap suggestion on something that can take our Component (3 BNC) signal and convert it to 4:3. Thanks.