SONY V1U -vs- CANON XH-A1

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by John Poore

Not so sure. I always have shutter selected on the wheel when I am filming so I can control it manually - I could not imagine having it any other way. So I'd have to go back and select gain or wb in the menu, then go back to manual shutter again.

Not sure why you'd want to change shutter during a shot, exposure, yes..shutter?
Regardless, white balance may be assigned off if you need instant access. Don't forget you've got 6 assignable buttons, 3 assignable if you use Shot Transitions.

[Holly Rognan]

I change the shutter when filming some types of things. I just shot a concert last night with my A1 and I like to drop the shutter to as low as 1/3 during fast guitar riffs and move the camcorder all over the place, following the beat, and bumping back up the shutter for the chorus, this is experimental, not many people do it, but I love the look.

[John Poore]

I work in the news and current affairs business. Not in a studio environment. I might be filming inside a court and then everybody rushes outside into the bright sunshine. I need to keep my eye and camera on the ball so I don't miss that money shot. I might be filming a house fire late at night and then the family arrive on the other side of the street where it's completely dark. You've got to swing around and keep rolling on that.

This means changing things like wb and exposure there and then, even as I am rolling if needs be. I don't have ten seconds to stop and fiddle with menus while the action is taking place. Here you need control over the iris, shutter, wb and gain all the time because the environment is changing and you have no control over it. It's such a pity a great camera like the V1 doesnt take this into account. You'd think it'd be perfect for it.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by John Poore

I work in the news and current affairs business. Not in an studio environment. I might be filming inside a court and then everybody rushes outside into the bright sunshine. I need to keep my eye and camera on the ball so I don't miss that money shot. I might be filming a house fire late at night and then the family arrive on the other side of the street where it completely dark. You've got to swing around and keep rolling on that.

This means changing things like wb and exposure there and then, even as I am rolling if needs be. I don't have ten seconds to stop and fiddle with menus while the action is taking place. Here you need control over the iris, shutter, wb and gain all the time because environment is changing and you have no control over it. It's such a pity a great camera like the V1 doesnt take this into account. You'd think it's be perfect for it.

But John, there are other cameras out there that might suit your needs. I started my career as a camera operator and had very little need to adjust shutter speed during shooting. I'd certainly have cause to change white balance following the reporter/presenter from one lighting type into another.

The V1 is what it is and it is important to point out that it is superior in many other regards to other cameras in its price range. You might gain in one regard and lose in others.

TT

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by John Poore

This means changing things like wb and exposure there and then, even as I am rolling if needs be. I don't have ten seconds to stop and fiddle with menus while the action is taking place. Here you need control over the iris, shutter, wb and gain all the time because environment is changing and you have no control over it. It's such a pity a great camera like the V1 doesn't take this into account. You'd think it's be perfect for it.

The V1 offers all this. Use ATW set to Intellingent. It will find the correct WB in less than 5 seconds even as you move from room to room.

Use Exposure in Exposure Shift mode. Now the fundamental exposure is set automatically -- and its almost always correct. Gain will be auto added as needed. Then you can instantly tweak up or down to meet your needs using the dial.

For ENG there's really no need to change shutter.

By the way -- the V1's AF is also spot on and faster than you can focus. Plus you can tweak it if it's not exactly correct.

The problem is that folks have been brain washed into using Manual cause they think they need to. There's a reason why the pro ENG cameras have a set of auto functions.

In short the V1 is perfect for your needs. But, you do need to learn how to use it!

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The V1 offers all this. Use ATW set to Intellingent. It will find the correct WB in less than 5 seconds even as you move from room to room.

Use Exposure in Exposure Shift mode. Now the fundamental exposure is set automatically -- and its almost always correct. Gain will be auto added as needed. Then you can instantly tweak up or down to meet your needs using the dial.

For ENG there's really no need to change shutter.

By the way -- the V1's AF is also spot on and faster than you can focus. Plus you can tweak it if it's not exactly correct.

The problem is that folks have been brain washed into using Manual cause they think they need to. There's a reason why the pro ENG cameras have a set of auto functions.

In short the V1 is perfect for your needs. But, you do need to learn how to use it!

Well it's pretty obvious you've never shot professionally.

I can't think any professional who wants control over an image would should on anything other than manual. I have never met any professional camera operator who would share those views of Steve Mullen even shooting with a compact camera.

Auto exposure, auto WB, auto focus and gain "added as needed"???? This has to be the absolute pinnacle of bad practice.

TT

[Alex Leith]

So am I correct in understanding that there is no separate gain switch on the V1?

[Alex Leith]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The V1 offers all this. Use ATW set to Intellingent. It will find the correct WB in less than 5 seconds even as you move from room to room.

Use Exposure in Exposure Shift mode. Now the fundamental exposure is set automatically -- and its almost always correct. Gain will be auto added as needed. Then you can instantly tweak up or down to meet your needs using the dial.

For ENG there's really no need to change shutter.

By the way -- the V1's AF is also spot on and faster than you can focus. Plus you can tweak it if it's not exactly correct.

I don't think I'd ever be happy working with ATW myself, I've yet to find a camera that is totally stable when determining the light temperature.

On the FX1 I was fairly impressed with the auto exposure with exposure-shift, especially when it was set to slow. It was subtle enough to look like a fairly natural iris ramp, but not too quick so it didn't swoop up and down all the time (which was always the problem before). If the V1 works similarly, then I wouldn't be unhappy working that way for ENG - especially given the auto gain.

AF I'd never trust. It's helpful for spot-focussing, but a pain in the arse when it decides that you're actually looking at the wall behind the subject!

I think there is certainly still a case for working as manually as possible. For the V1 the thing that might make it workable for ENG is the exposure shift, with white balance set on the control wheel at the back.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Alex Leith

So am I correct in understanding that there is no separate gain switch on the V1?

Of course there is a gain switch. Total manual control is possible, but unecessary IMHO.

You can also set a gain Limit, which I set at 12dB. Then I use the histogram function and Zebra at 100IRE. You can't miss getting perfect exposure with minimum noise.

DSE -- do you know if in E1 mode, the V1 always LOCKS the shutter-speed to either 1/60th or 1/48th (depending on frame-rate) -- or does it LOCK it at the last manually set shutter-speed. I think the latter. The manual is unclear.

If it is the latter, then because E1 does lock the control (needlessly in my opinion), one MAY need to set shutter-speed BEFORE entering E1 mode.

[Alex Leith]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Then I use the histogram function and Zebra at 100IRE. You can't miss getting perfect exposure with minimum noise.

The histogram is a great feature.

[John Poore]

I would never shoot the way you suggest Steve. In an unpredictable environment you must be in control of the instrument. Anything can happen. You always have to expose for peoples faces and in a typical bad light situation the camera will always take the average which simply is not good enough for news standards.

On my Z1 I can change wb without looking in a heartbeat just by flicking that little switch on the side. Same with gain when night shooting. I always program my wb for an instant indoor/outdoor jump.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

John, from your posts it would appear that you're wanting the V1 to be a replacement for the Z1.
It's not, and wasn't intended to be.
From my perspective, if you're shooting news, I can't possibly imagine why you'd want a progressive camcorder, particularly right now. Most every viewer in the world would go ballistic at max, and get a headache at minimum, watching news shot in 25p with a camera that was moving as quickly as you imply you're moving. The judder just won't be acceptable in this scenario. For indie film and planned moments, or in the hands of someone experienced in shooting 24/25p, it's a valuable tool.

That said, I have to disagree with your feeling that you can't move the exposure settings fast enough.
Currently, we're shooting in the comparitively dark environment of a DC9 and immediately moving to extremely bright outdoor shots moving at speeds that you can't imagine. The V1 manages that all just fine with an assigned button. Not much different than the Z1. However, my shutter speeds are constant. Everything else changes.

Overall, I get the impression you're looking for reasons the V1 isn't the right camera for you. If you're looking for it to be a superior camera to the Z1, or looking for it to have features it doesn't, then it probably isn't, and the A1 is the only other camera in the price class and size that anyone has to offer.
It's a great camcorder too.

[Brett Sherman]

Progressive Scan was the trump card for me in the V1/A1 decision. Almost everything else, I like the Canon better. However, 30P is the format of the future. It is film-like, can be cut with 60i footage, and the camera can be moved more quickly than 24P. Also the apparent resolution is higher than 60i. Think of it this way, it trades temporal resolution for spatial resolution. Most high-end TV productions are now shot on 30P (except for reality shows). Almost all displays sold in the U.S. are now progressive scan displays. All web-based videos are progressive scan. Interlaced days are numbered. For future proofing, I'd rather be capturing a progressive image.

This camera is not the last HD camera any of us will buy. When I get a better quality HD camera sometime in the future, the V1 will cut with it since it will shoot progressive. The A1 will require deinterlacing and thus lower resolution.

Other comments on the V1, there are many things I find frustrating with the V1, but I'm sure there are things I wouldn't like about the A1 too. My guess is that Canon did a slightly better job with ergonomics.

While Exposure 1 setting is cool, I find it useless because it doesn't allow you to adjust the shutter. Why do I want to adjust the shutter? Because indoor I use 1/30 to maximize light. Outside I use 1/60 to minimize motion blur. And it takes too long to switch between Exposure 1 and full manual.

The white balance sucks on the V1. It's complicated and poorly designed. Why they used a switch for zebra settings that I never change and a button for white balance is just poor design. That being said, you can use the white balance well once you get used to it. I leave it in preset and tweak it from there manually.

I don't see how an extra $500 (or $1000 with the wide angle adapter) should be a decision maker for you. If it does what you want, you buy it. Both cameras are relatively cheap.

[Alex Leith]

Er... the canon does progressive....

24f is 24p and 30f is 30p.

The resolution hit on the Canon in "F" mode is 10%, but to be honest it has resolution aplenty.

[Thomas Smet]

Originally Posted by Brett Sherman

Progressive Scan was the trump card for me in the V1/A1 decision. Almost everything else, I like the Canon better. However, 30P is the format of the future. It is film-like, can be cut with 60i footage, and the camera can be moved more quickly than 24P. Also the apparent resolution is higher than 60i. Think of it this way, it trades temporal resolution for spatial resolution. Most high-end TV productions are now shot on 30P (except for reality shows). Almost all displays sold in the U.S. are now progressive scan displays. All web-based videos are progressive scan. Interlaced days are numbered. For future proofing, I'd rather be capturing a progressive image.

This camera is not the last HD camera any of us will buy. When I get a better quality HD camera sometime in the future, the V1 will cut with it since it will shoot progressive. The A1 will require deinterlacing and thus lower resolution.

Other comments on the V1, there are many things I find frustrating with the V1, but I'm sure there are things I wouldn't like about the A1 too. My guess is that Canon did a slightly better job with ergonomics.

While Exposure 1 setting is cool, I find it useless because it doesn't allow you to adjust the shutter. Why do I want to adjust the shutter? Because indoor I use 1/30 to maximize light. Outside I use 1/60 to minimize motion blur. And it takes too long to switch between Exposure 1 and full manual.

The white balance sucks on the V1. It's complicated and poorly designed. Why they used a switch for zebra settings that I never change and a button for white balance is just poor design. That being said, you can use the white balance well once you get used to it. I leave it in preset and tweak it from there manually.

I don't see how an extra $500 (or $1000 with the wide angle adapter) should be a decision maker for you. If it does what you want, you buy it. Both cameras are relatively cheap.

Most high end productions actually use 24p because they still come from film. 30p is hardly ever used and can be very hard to convert to PAL markets. Stuff in the US is either shot 24p, 60i or 60p. 30p is not the way of the future, 60p is.

The A1 does shoot progressive style of video and the only people that complain about the resolution loss of the F mode are those who have never shot with it.