V1U 24P/30P workflow on the Mac?

[Greg Quinn]

I'd like to know what others folks in the Mac world are using for a workflow for using the V1U. With NAB more than three months away and Apple unlikely to update FCP before then, surely I'm not the only one who's trying to figure out a workable arranegent for professionally using V1 progressive footage sooner rather than later?

I'll start the ball rolling: I plan to grab a copy of Vegas to enable me to extract progressive (and pulldown in 24P) from the interlaced stream (as far as I can see, Connect HD will do this but doesn't render anything that can be directly used by FCP). I have Windows XP running on Boot Camp for this purpose. Now that Parallels is also able to access the Boot Camp partition, I'll try to see whether this will enable capture within XP within OSX.

Any suggestions about the best format to export progressive footage from Vegas for import into FCP?

[Paul Frederick]

I'm trying to work with FCP and the Sony 24p from the V1 too. I found this in a "first look" at the camera by Adam Wilt. It's not a perfect "how to", but he's been successful with it by the sound of it:

"I had no problem capturing the V1's 24p as 60i using Final Cut Pro 5.0.4, converting the clip to DVCPRO HD, and then extracting the original 24 frames per second using Cinema Tools. (Cinema Tools refuses to work on raw HDV clips, hence the conversion to DVCPRO HD. I also used Apple Intermediate Codec and uncompressed formats successfully.) The recovered 24p clip showed perfectly even timing between frames with no temporal syncopation: it's really 24p. The shutter speed defaults to 1/48 second, 1/24, and 1/40 (but not 1/32), and higher and lower speeds can be dialed in."

Doesn't going to DVCPRO HD make the footage 720? Everytime I try to go to it the footage is then 1280x720. I hate the idea of losing resolution.

A step by step "how to" in FCP from someone would be very useful to ALOT of people.

[Greg Quinn]

Originally Posted by Paul Frederick

"I had no problem capturing the V1's 24p as 60i using Final Cut Pro 5.0.4, converting the clip to DVCPRO HD, and then extracting the original 24 frames per second using Cinema Tools. (Cinema Tools refuses to work on raw HDV clips, hence the conversion to DVCPRO HD. I also used Apple Intermediate Codec and uncompressed formats successfully.) The recovered 24p clip showed perfectly even timing between frames with no temporal syncopation: it's really 24p. The shutter speed defaults to 1/48 second, 1/24, and 1/40 (but not 1/32), and higher and lower speeds can be dialed in."

Doesn't going to DVCPRO HD make the footage 720? Everytime I try to go to it the footage is then 1280x720. I hate the idea of losing resolution.

A step by step "how to" in FCP from someone would be very useful to ALOT of people.

Thanks for the Cinema Tools tip, Paul; does it really remove the 3:2 pulldown and extract 24P from the 60i stream?

I get the strong impression from various posts is that most everyone with an interest with progressive on the V1 on this board are PC-based, for which there are current solutions for progressive capture/editing - it's turning out to be, in the short term at least, *not* the ideal cam for the many Mac-based folks interested in progressive film production.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Greg, it was much if not more, the same with the DVX when it came out. This is why both cams have offered streams in 60i mode as well. I'm quite sure we'll see FCP supporting this very soon, if not, third party tools are, and will moreso become available in the near future.

[Greg Quinn]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Greg, it was much if not more, the same with the DVX when it came out. This is why both cams have offered streams in 60i mode as well. I'm quite sure we'll see FCP supporting this very soon, if not, third party tools are, and will moreso become available in the near future.

Douglas, points taken about the DVX, but unless you know something about FCP that the rest of us don't (quite possible given your connections) I think it's reasonable to assume that we won't see support for V1 progressive video until FCP6 is announced in April. In the meantime, I'm still looking for a simplified Mac/FCP-based workflow for 24P projects on the V1U before then.

I just shot and cut a little two minute piece so that I could shakedown the camera and the workflow with Final Cut Pro.

Worked pretty nicely.

Shoot 24p Scan A mode. Capture in Final Cut as Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60. Open your capture scratch folder and, one clip at a time, right click the clip and open with cinema tools. Do not move the playhead!! choose reverse telecine, be sure conform to says 23.98 and near the bottom of the screen choose _CD_. After the footage has been pulled down you should see no interlaced frames of any kind. Create a new AIC 1080i60 sequence in FCP, but change its frame rate to 23.98 in sequence settings (you'll see the field dominance switch to none).

Note it only works this easily if you shoot 24p scan A mode so that the cadence resets every time you pause the camera. if you shoot in regular 24p, you'll have to find the A frame for each clip you pull down, and that is a pain with AIC.

You can't use HDV native because cinema tools needs all I frames. AIC looks exactly like the HDV, it just takes up several times the disc space and you'll lose the timecode. I did this with the current versions of FCP & CT. I'm not sure that it would work in older versions.

here is the test short I did at 1/2 resolution...

RIGHT CLICK AND DOWNLOAD THE LINKED FILE:

http://www.sharing.ramjetfilms.com/Rocky_Peak_540p.mov

(no FX or color correction of any kind...)

Of course, when FCP offically supports the V1U it will be easier, but this workflow will work for me until then.

[Paul Frederick]

Brian,

This is just what I've been looking for! A step by step how to! I can't wait to try it out. It'll be fine to use AIC for smaller projects, such as 30 second commercials. It takes up more HD space, but if this works as well as you (and Adam Wilt) say, then I'm cool with the extra steps.

Just need to remember to shoot in the Scan A mode...

[Paul Frederick]

Brian,

I ran some quick tests last night and this does indeed work like a charm! Thanks for the workflow tip.

[Alphonse Swinehart]

Brian, did you capture from a deck, or directly from the camera? I'm having trouble with my capture settings, as it's not letting me edit the HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec preset, unless this is unnecessary. I also can't create a Generic Capture Template, since it looks like it wants to work with a deck.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Alphonse

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

I get the strong impression from various posts is that most everyone with an interest with progressive on the V1 on this board are PC-based, for which there are current solutions for progressive capture/editing - it's turning out to be, in the short term at least, *not* the ideal cam for the many Mac-based folks interested in progressive film production.

I'm with you on this. In fact FCP still doesn't fully support JVC's range of HDV. They seem unable to get a general MPEG-2 editing solution out the door and so resort to HDV patches as time permits.

Sony claimed 24p support would come from Apple when the V1 shipped. JVC made the same claim last year at NAB. Apple has screwed them both.

So glad to hear Premiere is coming back. With the CineForm codec it will be a killer NLE. Then I can dump all Apple software from my Mac, except OS X.

Alphonse, I captured both from the cam & from an M10U.

Just choose AIC 1080i60. Ignore it if it says it doesn't see your camera. Make sure your tape is at the beginning and open log and capture. You have very little control with AIC (can't log or anything).

[Paul Frederick]

Steve,

Are you implying Premiere is coming back to MAC? I have not heard this news. That indeed would be nice to have another option! I switched from Premiere and PC editing to a MAC with FCP a few years ago, I miss Premiere in some ways. Sounds like dealing with 24p is going to be one of them. Is this going to happen soon?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Apple and Adobe have both quietly suggested in public spaces, that Premiere will be on the Mac at some reasonably coming date. However, no official announcement has been made (that I'm aware of), so until such an announcement comes, it is a rumor, and not a fact.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

However, no official announcement has been made (that I'm aware of), so until such an announcement comes, it is a rumor, and not a fact.

"Our customers wanted all the components in Adobe Production Studio to be available on both the Macintosh and Windows platforms," said John Loiacono, senior vice president of Creative Solutions Business Unit at Adobe.

"We listened and believe that an innovative new cross-platform video suite, anchored by powerhouse releases of Adobe Photoshop, Adobe *Premiere Pro* and Adobe After Effects, will really shake up the industry."

`Adobe Production Studio for Macintosh will be available for purchase in mid-2007 as a Universal Binary for Intel-based Macs, the company said.'

Adobe understands that we need cross-platform products and we need the integration of all our creative tools. Despite the understandable loyalty of Apple owners to FCP, IMHO Adobe is the only company in the industry to truly be focused on media creation and to have the funds and in-house expertise to build best of breed media products.

As much as I love Apple hardware and OS X -- once you travel outside the USA you realize that MOST people use PC's and Windows. Now if Adobe were to release Adobe Production Studio for Linux -- that would be major cool.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Great, nice to see there was a press release. I wasn't aware of it.