V1U and Redrock Micro M2 film grabs

[Todd Giglio]

I recently made this post over at the RedRock Micro M2 site, but thought you all would be interested too.

Hi All,

I recently took some footage with my new V1U/M2 and pulled some stills for everyone to see.

I plan on also posting raw m2t files that these clips came from.

The only processing I did was to convert the still to 1920x1080 (and even though the footage is 24p, the stream is still 60i so I had to deinterlace 2 of the clips).

I shot with the 24SCNA mode (24A).

www.zerocloud.com/M2_20mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_35mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_85mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_105mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_105mm2.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_135mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_180mm.jpg

I used quicktime conversion in FCP to export the stills and photoshop to resize. I hope they accurately represent the true image.

Keep in mind, this was the first time I've tried using the M2 and my setup was very simple. I shot, put a new lens on and shot some more. I didn't really take the time to do a proper M2/V1U setup, but I'm pretty happy so far.

Todd

[Chris Barcellos]

Todd:

Using Nikon lenses ?

[Todd Giglio]

Yes.

Here's another still:

www.zerocloud.com/M2_105mm3.jpg

Here are the lenses I have.

LENSES:
Tokina 17mm f3.5
Sigma 20mm f1.8
Nikons:
28mm f2.8
35mm f2.0
50mm f1.4
85mm f1.4
105mm f1.8
135mm f2.8
180mm f2.8

I noticed the Tokina had a bit more vingetting and a darker image, but less edge distortion.

[Robert Ducon]

Thank you for posting Todd.

[Daniel Boswell]

Originally Posted by Todd Giglio

I recently made this post over at the RedRock Micro M2 site, but thought you all would be interested too.

Hi All,

I recently took some footage with my new V1U/M2 and pulled some stills for everyone to see.

I plan on also posting raw m2t files that these clips came from.

The only processing I did was to convert the still to 1920x1080 (and even though the footage is 24p, the stream is still 60i so I had to deinterlace 2 of the clips).

I shot with the 24SCNA mode (24A).

www.zerocloud.com/M2_20mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_35mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_85mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_105mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_105mm2.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_135mm.jpg
www.zerocloud.com/M2_180mm.jpg

I used quicktime conversion in FCP to export the stills and photoshop to resize. I hope they accurately represent the true image.

Keep in mind, this was the first time I've tried using the M2 and my setup was very simple. I shot, put a new lens on and shot some more. I didn't really take the time to do a proper M2/V1U setup, but I'm pretty happy so far.

Todd

Thanks Todd.

How much was your set-up?

Can you post some footage?

[Todd Giglio]

I've spent A LOT!!!. I own an event video business and plan on pursuing corporate work (as well as Independent Film). I've invested in my company well over $75,000 over the last three years and have made some return (not as much as I had hoped for). This money went into other equipment as well (Steadicam Flyer, Indie-Dolly, Advanta-Jib Crane, Schoeps Mics, etc.)

I do plan on posting footage soon, and I'll keep everyone up to date. To be fair, I think I can get better footage if I have more time to setup. I will post some that I have, but I don't want anyone to jump to conclusions that this is what the V1U looks like. I have to better understand each lens and to find the 'sweet' spots. I have to say that, aside from mounting the M2, it didn't seem that difficult to get a decent picture.

I plan on shooting my first feature next year, so I will gone through the trials and error period (I hope).

Todd

[Daniel Boswell]

Originally Posted by Todd Giglio

I've spent A LOT!!!. I own an event video business and plan on pursuing corporate work (as well as Independent Film). I've invested in my company well over $75,000 over the last three years and have made some return (not as much as I had hoped for). This money went into other equipment as well (Steadicam Flyer, Indie-Dolly, Advanta-Jib Crane, Schoeps Mics, etc.)

I do plan on posting footage soon, and I'll keep everyone up to date. To be fair, I think I can get better footage if I have more time to setup. I will post some that I have, but I don't want anyone to jump to conclusions that this is what the V1U looks like. I have to better understand each lens and to find the 'sweet' spots. I have to say that, aside from mounting the M2, it didn't seem that difficult to get a decent picture.

I plan on shooting my first feature next year, so I will gone through the trials and error period (I hope).

Todd

You don't want to say how much the RedRock set-up was?

[Todd Giglio]

Oh.. the RedRock.

I'm sorry, I was cofused by what you asked (that's what happens when it's 2am...)

Let's see... the M2 bundle with follow focus cost a little over $2100.00, and the lenses added up to about $2200.00 (I have nine total). Lenses can be expensive... I spent a lot of time on ebay.

This may seem to be alot, but for someone looking for the 'film look' it seems like a good deal.

I love the way DOF can help tell a story, and for some of the projects I'm working on now, DOF is very important. Of course we all know that these are only tools and this doesn't replace film (or skill), but being given a chance to work this way is worth the cost (to me anyway).

[Brad Abrahams]

Thanks for the grabs.

You shouldn't have to deinterlace. All that's required is pulldown removal.

[Todd Giglio]

Yeah, but unfortunately FCP doesn't know how to do the proper pulldown yet. Hopefully with the upcoming update (?), this feature will be added.

I know there are various PC programs that already do this (Vegas, Edius), so us Mac users are left waiting again.

[Bob Hart]

In the 20mm shot, there is a bit of concentric CA evident in the corners top left and top right.

If all the other camcorder zoom and focus settings are correct, this then hints that there might be possibility of improvement if the dioptre lens can be placed closer to the camcorder's own lens.

Another solution might be to use a less powerful dioptre and set the dioptre and camcorder furthur back from the groundglass.

What zoom setting in millimetres do you use to get your image framed? It looks to me like you might be trying to take too much area off the groundglass as there is a slight brightness falloff to the corners and that should not be happening with the M2 groundglass as I know it.

Check with the Redrock people. You may find that their setup is optimised for a groundglass area of 22mm wide. The Mini35 I understand, maybe incorrectly, to be 21mm.

I'm using the same Sigma and I do not get corner falloff with this lens at all. I'm using two size areas off the groundglass, about 26mm with a 4+ dioptre and about 22mm - 24mm with a 7+ dioptre. This is with my own adaptor, not the M2, but the basic rules are similar across some adaptors.

Sacrifice a little of the groundglass area, say about 4mm less width by going in a bit closer with the zoom if you can. You may lose a bit of resolution but you may recover some with sharper focus across the whole of the smaller image.

I also understand that setting up and fine-tuning the M2 takes a bit of effort. If the SLR lens backfocus is off, the wides are not going to focus right. They might even CA in the corners but I don't know about this.

The zoom relay wth in-camera lens type camera is a handy composition tool if you have dark areas or even just plain soft areas on edges of the image.

Centre axis of SLR lens relative to centre axis of camcorder seems to be off to the left by about 1.5mm. (to the right as viewed in the image.)

This could also be caused by a bending force on the camcorder/adaptor junction if you have it set up on a bridgeplate and rods and have tightened the baseplate screw down a bit hard or forced a fit if it has been a bit baulky

Is the dioptre mounted direct to the camera or mounted in the adaptor in such a way that the centre is correct for the camera lens centre.

Also it could be an offset of the centre of the imager relative to the camcorder lens optical centre. This is more common than you might believe and optical steadyshot fluid prisms at rest among other things. Its not a big deal.

A fourth cause could be SLR lens centre axis not being coincident with the camcorder centre axis. Because your image is not conveyed direct to camera from the SLR lens, this is not a big deal.

Don't take much notice of me on the offset comment because it might also just be a naturally darker area in left of the image.

[Todd Giglio]

Bob,

Thanks for your help. I will definitely try your suggestions (glad to hear you have the same 20mm lens and you get it to work properly). I assume that the 'dioptre lens' is the achromat? I believe my camera focus was .4m and the f-stop was set at its highest stop.

I'm going to take a lot more time setting up. I was very rushed to even get footage (between my excitement of getting the V1U and my two kids). I know the M2 has potential, and I plan on starting from step one in the tutorial (I'm finally getting a focus chart). I think the V1U will live nicely with a 35mm adaptor.

I hopefully will have time this weekend to re-do my tests and I will write down any settings. Any suggestions are appreciated and welcomed.

Todd

[Bob Hart]

Dioptre is the achromat.

Your camcorder focus settings seem about right so I think your problems might relate to how far you zoom in.

My own works in the range from 1.9M to 14M on the Z1P, with 32mm to54mm zom-in with about 50mm best.

The relay focus position depends on how true I have set the SLR lens mount cap and then where the backfocus has ended up. It is not critical as long as there is some focus range left to play with.

SLR lens backfocus interacts with the relay focus on my setup because my backfocus arrangement moves the whole groundglass whilst the camcorder position remains fixed.

There's a quick test with the 20mm at Youtube but the image is way soft from the mp4 compression but you may get a sense of the GG area I used. I don't have the link handy but if you search for agus35monk or keyword AGUS35, you'll find them all. I think the 20mm test is the one right at the bottom of the list.

You will see a darkness in the sky on the right high corner. This is related to my lens mount being 3mm high and right. I later remade the front cap to move the mount and the rear cap which carries the camcorder bayonet mount. The aperture setting on that clip was f4

My first non-flip AGUS35 used a very close couple and a telescope eyepiece which had an exit pupil of 44mm and was about 14+. It worked quite well but was very touchy to set up.

I got the same issues you did when I tried for too much area off the groundglass and it retained a bit of CA and stretch in the corners even when zoomed in to 24mm width.

People seem to be reporting difficulty with the M2 but I think much of this is to do with understanding the principles and the way it is set up. It is a sort of generation 1 of alternative adaptors and the adjustments are probably not intuitive if allen screws are involved.

In a comparitive test with a bunch of adaptors including a Mini35 by a DP the M2 image was actually preferred but the non-flip issue goes against it.

[Thomas Smet]

Does anybody else notice the odd filter pattern in these images? It looks sort of like the oil paint issue with the Pal models. Is this from the M2 or the camera itself?

[Adam Palomer]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

Does anybody else notice the odd filter pattern in these images? It looks sort of like the oil paint issue with the Pal models. Is this from the M2 or the camera itself?

It looks like chromatic aberration to me.