Hvr-v1u 24p Clips

John Hewat · December 30th, 2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Interlaced with jaggies on what screen with what NLE?
If your NLE doesn't support pulldown removal of HDV, then of course, you'll see interlacing artifacts, because the footage *is* interlaced.
In other words, if you don't have Vegas, or Edius, or don't have CineForm for PP, you aren't seeing 24p.

Sorry to bother you again Douglas, but your wording here has me confused again so I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked in another thread.

To edit 24p & 25p on PPro 1.5.1, do I NEED to download Cineform's ASPECT HD? Or can PPro remove the pulldown on its own?

I'm confused because there are no presets for 24p in PPro. I wouldn't have a clue what type of project to start for 50i or 60i that will be output as 25p/24p.

Thank you,
-- John.

David Newman · December 31st, 2006, 12:56 AM

For native M2T editing under Premiere Pro, Adobe has yet to support the 24p signal embedded it 60i, however you can edit 24p captures as 60i. With Aspect HD you can extract the 24p signal upon capture (in a single step) and it adds the 24p preset for editing 1080p24. The free CineForm components included in PPro 1.5.1 do not support the 24p modes, for that you do need the full verison of Aspect HD (or Prospect HD.) CineForm tools aren't required to edit HDV (we were once the only solution) but we are still very useful.

Ali Husain · December 31st, 2006, 03:04 AM

i definitely recommend the cineform codec for generating an editable intermediate. i used it to edit a multicam hvx200 project with sony vegas a few months ago. without naming the various other products i tried, it worked better than all of them--> looked identical to the dvcpro-hd footage and produced a full-res real-time preview on my older-ish machine.

my only complaint is that i can never remember which product is which :) mostly because my memory i think is going bad, but also because the names aspect, prospect, and connect, don't form any kind of association in my head with premiere or vegas or avid etc. i just know one of them works with vegas and the rest don't. maybe if it were called Cineform-HD vegas, Cineform-HD premiere, etc. does this confuse anyone else? anyway just a suggestion. i know the products dont' have identical features.

i'm also glad that we have direct support for the codec on this board!

Ray Bell · December 31st, 2006, 08:45 AM

Ok, who has the best prices on Cineform products... :-)

looks like I'm going to be doing some major upgrading in Hardware and Software.

John Hewat · December 31st, 2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

For native M2T editing under Premiere Pro, Adobe has yet to support the 24p signal embedded it 60i, however you can edit 24p captures as 60i. With Aspect HD you can extract the 24p signal upon capture (in a single step) and it adds the 24p preset for editing 1080p24. The free CineForm components included in PPro 1.5.1 do not support the 24p modes, for that you do need the full verison of Aspect HD (or Prospect HD.) CineForm tools aren't required to edit HDV (we were once the only solution) but we are still very useful.

Thank you David! That's what I needed to know. Can I ask if the same goes for 1080p25? Is PPro ok with that on its own already? Or does Aspect HD provide the same easy workflow for 25p material?

David Newman · January 1st, 2007, 12:41 AM

Although 1080p25 and 1080i50 are structurely very similar, Premiere doesn't allow progressive to be set of native HDV editing. You might try the Canon XL-H1 patch for 25F, yet that doesn't work on the V1 for 24p. Aspect HD works fine for all HDV 24p or 25p sources.

Michael May · January 1st, 2007, 08:15 PM

I have Vegas 7.0c and Connect HD 3.3. I imported the raw mt2 files from Brian's link into Vegas and looked at the properties for the clips. The clip properties show the mt2 files have a 29.97 frame rate. I do have the Vegas project properties set for the HDV 1080-24p template. When I play the video on the timeline, I "think" it looks like a real 24p frame rate, but honestly I don't have the experience to know for sure.

So here is my question: Is this the way Vegas handles the 24p via 60i capture, by showing up in the timeline a 60i clip, but you have to set the project properties as 24p? If so, I think this is what is causing alot of the confusion.

If not, should the clip properties show up as 23.976 by themselves without any intervention? I do have the remove pull down activated in the general preferences settings. I think everyone (myself included) is expecting the properties to be 23.976 automatically.

BTW, the video looks great Brian. I have an HVR-A1 that I'm still learning to use (I'm a rookie) but would love to get the V1U after I figure out what I'm doing.

David Newman · January 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM

Michael,

If you intend to use Connect HD, load in those m2t files and select the convert tab. In "Prefs" select "Remove 3-2 Pulldown ...", then convert those M2T to 24p AVIs.

Greg Quinn · January 1st, 2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Michael,

If you intend to use Connect HD, load in those m2t files and select the convert tab. In "Prefs" select "Remove 3-2 Pulldown ...", then convert those M2T to 24p AVIs.

David;

Am I correct in thinking then that to capture V1U 24P video, and remove the pulldown from the 60i stream, the ConnectHD product will do this, without the need for Vegas (since my NLE of choice is FCP).

Thanks

David Newman · January 1st, 2007, 10:27 PM

Connect HD doesn't (yet) work with Mac based NLEs like FCP, but otherwise you are correct.

Tony Tremble · January 2nd, 2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Connect HD doesn't (yet) work with Mac based NLEs like FCP, but otherwise you are correct.

David,

Are we waiting for a new version of FCP to be able to use Cineform or has development of the Mac based version taken longer than anticipated? Or both?

I read somewhere that FCP does not allow its core render pipeline to be replaced like PP does so would the Mac Cineform solution be more along the lines of Connect rather than Aspect/Prospect?

Wishing you at Cineform well for 2007

TT

Paul Frederick · January 2nd, 2007, 07:18 AM

David,

I would be all over this for FCP! Frankly I find working in Native too time consuming to render and using Apple Intermediate doesn't look as good. To have these 24p issues worked out as well...count me in!

Michael May · January 2nd, 2007, 09:08 PM

Mr. Newman,

Thanks for the instructions on using the V1U with Cineform. Following your instructions I converted Brian's footage to a 24p Cineform .avi and imported it into Vegas. I rendered several types of files that everyone could take a look at.

Here is the link: http://www.mbdigitalworks.com/v1u. The descriptions are listed below.

File 1: 1080p blu print file
File 2: 1080p Windows media file
File 4: 480p widescreen DVD mpeg file
File 5: 720p Windows media file

After importing the files into Vegas, the properties showed the frame rate as 23.976. Take a look at the videos and let me know how you feel about the 24p look and the new blu print format.

December 31st, 2006, 12:56 AM	#17
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	For native M2T editing under Premiere Pro, Adobe has yet to support the 24p signal embedded it 60i, however you can edit 24p captures as 60i. With Aspect HD you can extract the 24p signal upon capture (in a single step) and it adds the 24p preset for editing 1080p24. The free CineForm components included in PPro 1.5.1 do not support the 24p modes, for that you do need the full verison of Aspect HD (or Prospect HD.) CineForm tools aren't required to edit HDV (we were once the only solution) but we are still very useful. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 1st, 2007, 12:41 AM	#21
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Although 1080p25 and 1080i50 are structurely very similar, Premiere doesn't allow progressive to be set of native HDV editing. You might try the Canon XL-H1 patch for 25F, yet that doesn't work on the V1 for 24p. Aspect HD works fine for all HDV 24p or 25p sources. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM	#23
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Michael, If you intend to use Connect HD, load in those m2t files and select the convert tab. In "Prefs" select "Remove 3-2 Pulldown ...", then convert those M2T to 24p AVIs. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 1st, 2007, 10:27 PM	#25
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Connect HD doesn't (yet) work with Mac based NLEs like FCP, but otherwise you are correct. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 2nd, 2007, 09:08 PM	#28
Michael May New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Texas Posts: 23	V1U 24p footage and Cineform Mr. Newman, Thanks for the instructions on using the V1U with Cineform. Following your instructions I converted Brian's footage to a 24p Cineform .avi and imported it into Vegas. I rendered several types of files that everyone could take a look at. Here is the link: http://www.mbdigitalworks.com/v1u. The descriptions are listed below. File 1: 1080p blu print file File 2: 1080p Windows media file File 4: 480p widescreen DVD mpeg file File 5: 720p Windows media file After importing the files into Vegas, the properties showed the frame rate as 23.976. Take a look at the videos and let me know how you feel about the 24p look and the new blu print format.

December 31st, 2006, 03:04 AM	#18
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	i definitely recommend the cineform codec for generating an editable intermediate. i used it to edit a multicam hvx200 project with sony vegas a few months ago. without naming the various other products i tried, it worked better than all of them--> looked identical to the dvcpro-hd footage and produced a full-res real-time preview on my older-ish machine. my only complaint is that i can never remember which product is which :) mostly because my memory i think is going bad, but also because the names aspect, prospect, and connect, don't form any kind of association in my head with premiere or vegas or avid etc. i just know one of them works with vegas and the rest don't. maybe if it were called Cineform-HD vegas, Cineform-HD premiere, etc. does this confuse anyone else? anyway just a suggestion. i know the products dont' have identical features. i'm also glad that we have direct support for the codec on this board!

December 31st, 2006, 08:45 AM	#19
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Ok, who has the best prices on Cineform products... :-) looks like I'm going to be doing some major upgrading in Hardware and Software.

January 1st, 2007, 08:15 PM	#22
Michael May New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Texas Posts: 23	I have Vegas 7.0c and Connect HD 3.3. I imported the raw mt2 files from Brian's link into Vegas and looked at the properties for the clips. The clip properties show the mt2 files have a 29.97 frame rate. I do have the Vegas project properties set for the HDV 1080-24p template. When I play the video on the timeline, I "think" it looks like a real 24p frame rate, but honestly I don't have the experience to know for sure. So here is my question: Is this the way Vegas handles the 24p via 60i capture, by showing up in the timeline a 60i clip, but you have to set the project properties as 24p? If so, I think this is what is causing alot of the confusion. If not, should the clip properties show up as 23.976 by themselves without any intervention? I do have the remove pull down activated in the general preferences settings. I think everyone (myself included) is expecting the properties to be 23.976 automatically. BTW, the video looks great Brian. I have an HVR-A1 that I'm still learning to use (I'm a rookie) but would love to get the V1U after I figure out what I'm doing.

January 2nd, 2007, 07:18 AM	#27
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	David, I would be all over this for FCP! Frankly I find working in Native too time consuming to render and using Apple Intermediate doesn't look as good. To have these 24p issues worked out as well...count me in!