Three V1U Clips Coming Soon... at DVinfo.net

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 01:49 PM

Hi,

I've uploaded three clips I shot this afternoon (they are large Raw m2t files).

Clip One shows the sun coming through a pine tree, and a camera zoom to a close-up of the pine needles.
www.zerocloud.com/sun.m2t

Clip Two shows my dog running past me (I did this show what 24p camera motion would look like on this camera).
www.zerocloud.com/fast_dog.m2t

Clip Three just shows my dog in the yard (but there is a good example of detail in the grass).
www.zerocloud.com/dog.m2t

All the clips were shot with the 24p mode, with gain set to 0, shutter speed of 48, white balanced (off of my mailbox...), with no other adjustments (as is: out of the box). I did have the steady feature off (I had just pulled this off of my M2, and I didn't re-activate this feature).

I can't see any "oil painting" effect, and am extremely pleased with the image. This camera is an addition to my Z1U and will be happily using the V1U for a film next year.

These clips are just simple shots. I should have really white balanced the camera, so the colors may not be truly accurate. If I do more clips for uploading, I'll do a true white balance. Just from these simple clips I am impressed. Of course we all hope for the best when we get a new camera, but as of now, I have no regrets and I find it a nice addition to my equipment.

I do plan on doing some M2 tests soon, and I'll try to post those too. I was going to do that first (since this is how I plan on using the camera), but I figured folks on this site really want to see the camera AS IS.

Happy Holidays to all.

Todd

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM

One more thing...

Use VLC as your player (this is the best way I've found).

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Thank these guys for making a great app!

Todd

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 04:51 PM

The last clip finally finished uploading.

The files are 79mb, 67mb, and 110mb (they are Raw m2t files).

Todd

Chris Rentzel · December 21st, 2006, 05:10 PM

I'm viewing these .m2t files on "MPEG Streamclip" from Apple.

Are these clips playing back in Interlaced mode or in 24p? I'm confused. They look interlaced. How can we see them as 24p? When you capture as .m2t files from the V1U, are they interlaced? I don't understand what I'm looking at. Thanks.

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 05:13 PM

Chris,

I noticed the same thing as you, until I played them with VLC. Then the motion looked as it should (just be sure to set 'Video' in the prefences to Aspect Ratio 16:9 in the Advanced settings).

I definitely did see the 'interlaced' artifacts though (especially if I 'freezed' the image). Trust me that I did record with the 24p setting.

Todd

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 05:16 PM

Chris,

I also think that these players are treating the clips as interlaced since they are in the 60i stream. Once there is a true 24p import with the correct pulldown this issue should (hope) be gone completely.

Todd

Eric Goodspeed · December 21st, 2006, 06:16 PM

Greetings Todd, can you tell us which NLE you are using to capture? Premiere Pro?
Thankx
EG

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 06:36 PM

I used HDVxDV Trial. I tried FCP but couldn't get it to recognize the camera. I also tried iMovie HD but I think that captures as AIC, and I wanted the Raw m2t files.

In HDVxDV the settings were:

Timecode Settings: Drop Frame Timecode
Output Frame Size: Leave as is.
Field Dominance: Don't Change.

I'm not sure if this was what I should have used, but I was taking an educated guess. If anyone has a better solution, let me know. I want to have the clips represent their truest nature (and I don't want to fuddle that up if I'm importing improperly).

Todd

Todd Giglio · December 21st, 2006, 07:00 PM

I just captured with iMovie HD and the images (though AIC) definitely look better (less 'interlaced'). I'm being optomistic that when FCP is updated that we will be able to capture into true 24p with the proper pulldown.

I am happy with the images I've seen, and will do a lot more test footage. I'll keep playing around with iMovie HD and other programs to see what yields the best results.

Todd

Ali Husain · December 21st, 2006, 07:06 PM

shouldn't someone with a PC and the latest sony vegas be able to suck in those m2t files and write out progressive 24fps mpeg? i'd do it myself but i do'nt have access to my editing computer right now. thanks.

Eric Goodspeed · December 21st, 2006, 08:56 PM

Can anyone post a link to an apple or an otherwise reputable site clearly stating a scheduled FCP update for the V1? thankx
EG

Greg Quinn · December 21st, 2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Goodspeed

Can anyone post a link to an apple or an otherwise reputable site clearly stating a scheduled FCP update for the V1? thankx
EG

Nope, because there isn't one. For folks like myself who are shooting in 24P, this is an issue - my guess is that they could take anything up to a year to add V1 support to FCP. Looks like I'm gonna have to grab me a copy of Vegas to pre-process. I started a thread in which I said that for those of us using FCP and 24P, the V1U could be functionally useless for 24P for quite a while, and I got rounded on for even suggesting this.

Robert Ducon · December 21st, 2006, 09:18 PM

I highly doubt a year wait. I'd say next month expect to see updates. Maybe, just maybe apple will have FCP 6 or so with the words "Now 24P HDV Compatible" emblazoned on all the marketing documentation or so. It’d be an Apple-like move – I’d get FCP 6 then too ;)

Ali Husain · December 22nd, 2006, 02:10 AM

okay so i loaded these clips in vegas 7.0c. didn't do what i thought.

does anyone know what exactly sony changed to support these 24p in 60i mpeg2 files? because when i select the format:1440x1080 24p hdv, all vegas is doing is deinterlacing it, and not cleverly extracting the embedded true progressive stream as i'd expect. when i single-step through frames i see deinterlace ghosting, and the cadence is not true 24p... comments?

Todd Giglio · December 22nd, 2006, 09:27 AM

I'm unfamiliar with Vegas (being a Mac guy), but it's possible that Vegas makes the 60i stream to 24p on capture. Since you're importing the 'already captured' file, maybe Vegas is treating it like a real interlaced file not knowing the file should be 24p (a little confusing, but I'm just making another educated guess).

Todd

December 21st, 2006, 01:49 PM	#1
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	Three V1U Clips Hi, I've uploaded three clips I shot this afternoon (they are large Raw m2t files). Clip One shows the sun coming through a pine tree, and a camera zoom to a close-up of the pine needles. www.zerocloud.com/sun.m2t Clip Two shows my dog running past me (I did this show what 24p camera motion would look like on this camera). www.zerocloud.com/fast_dog.m2t Clip Three just shows my dog in the yard (but there is a good example of detail in the grass). www.zerocloud.com/dog.m2t All the clips were shot with the 24p mode, with gain set to 0, shutter speed of 48, white balanced (off of my mailbox...), with no other adjustments (as is: out of the box). I did have the steady feature off (I had just pulled this off of my M2, and I didn't re-activate this feature). I can't see any "oil painting" effect, and am extremely pleased with the image. This camera is an addition to my Z1U and will be happily using the V1U for a film next year. These clips are just simple shots. I should have really white balanced the camera, so the colors may not be truly accurate. If I do more clips for uploading, I'll do a true white balance. Just from these simple clips I am impressed. Of course we all hope for the best when we get a new camera, but as of now, I have no regrets and I find it a nice addition to my equipment. I do plan on doing some M2 tests soon, and I'll try to post those too. I was going to do that first (since this is how I plan on using the camera), but I figured folks on this site really want to see the camera AS IS. Happy Holidays to all. Todd Last edited by Todd Giglio; December 21st, 2006 at 04:56 PM. Reason: The clips have been uploaded

December 21st, 2006, 04:51 PM	#3
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	The Clips are up. The last clip finally finished uploading. The files are 79mb, 67mb, and 110mb (they are Raw m2t files). Todd

December 21st, 2006, 05:10 PM	#4
Chris Rentzel Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 60	Is it me, or... I'm viewing these .m2t files on "MPEG Streamclip" from Apple. Are these clips playing back in Interlaced mode or in 24p? I'm confused. They look interlaced. How can we see them as 24p? When you capture as .m2t files from the V1U, are they interlaced? I don't understand what I'm looking at. Thanks.

December 21st, 2006, 06:16 PM	#7
Eric Goodspeed New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 21	Nle? Greetings Todd, can you tell us which NLE you are using to capture? Premiere Pro? Thankx EG

December 21st, 2006, 08:56 PM	#11
Eric Goodspeed New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 21	FCP doin' V1 24p Can anyone post a link to an apple or an otherwise reputable site clearly stating a scheduled FCP update for the V1? thankx EG

December 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM	#2
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	One more thing... Use VLC as your player (this is the best way I've found). http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ Thank these guys for making a great app! Todd

December 21st, 2006, 05:13 PM	#5
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	Chris, I noticed the same thing as you, until I played them with VLC. Then the motion looked as it should (just be sure to set 'Video' in the prefences to Aspect Ratio 16:9 in the Advanced settings). I definitely did see the 'interlaced' artifacts though (especially if I 'freezed' the image). Trust me that I did record with the 24p setting. Todd

December 21st, 2006, 05:16 PM	#6
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	Chris, I also think that these players are treating the clips as interlaced since they are in the 60i stream. Once there is a true 24p import with the correct pulldown this issue should (hope) be gone completely. Todd

December 21st, 2006, 06:36 PM	#8
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	I used HDVxDV Trial. I tried FCP but couldn't get it to recognize the camera. I also tried iMovie HD but I think that captures as AIC, and I wanted the Raw m2t files. In HDVxDV the settings were: Timecode Settings: Drop Frame Timecode Output Frame Size: Leave as is. Field Dominance: Don't Change. I'm not sure if this was what I should have used, but I was taking an educated guess. If anyone has a better solution, let me know. I want to have the clips represent their truest nature (and I don't want to fuddle that up if I'm importing improperly). Todd

December 21st, 2006, 07:00 PM	#9
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	I just captured with iMovie HD and the images (though AIC) definitely look better (less 'interlaced'). I'm being optomistic that when FCP is updated that we will be able to capture into true 24p with the proper pulldown. I am happy with the images I've seen, and will do a lot more test footage. I'll keep playing around with iMovie HD and other programs to see what yields the best results. Todd

December 21st, 2006, 07:06 PM	#10
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	shouldn't someone with a PC and the latest sony vegas be able to suck in those m2t files and write out progressive 24fps mpeg? i'd do it myself but i do'nt have access to my editing computer right now. thanks.

December 21st, 2006, 09:18 PM	#13
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	I highly doubt a year wait. I'd say next month expect to see updates. Maybe, just maybe apple will have FCP 6 or so with the words "Now 24P HDV Compatible" emblazoned on all the marketing documentation or so. It’d be an Apple-like move – I’d get FCP 6 then too ;) __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

December 22nd, 2006, 02:10 AM	#14
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	okay so i loaded these clips in vegas 7.0c. didn't do what i thought. does anyone know what exactly sony changed to support these 24p in 60i mpeg2 files? because when i select the format:1440x1080 24p hdv, all vegas is doing is deinterlacing it, and not cleverly extracting the embedded true progressive stream as i'd expect. when i single-step through frames i see deinterlace ghosting, and the cadence is not true 24p... comments?

December 22nd, 2006, 09:27 AM	#15
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	I'm unfamiliar with Vegas (being a Mac guy), but it's possible that Vegas makes the 60i stream to 24p on capture. Since you're importing the 'already captured' file, maybe Vegas is treating it like a real interlaced file not knowing the file should be 24p (a little confusing, but I'm just making another educated guess). Todd