V1 25p issues (combined threads)

[Bob Grant]

If they don't I'm certain somebody will be smart enough to keep a camera with the original firmware to sell for a fortune on eBay as a collectable.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos

So far no US shots are available - only those taken with pre-production models. All the V1E shots contain the "oil painting" effect.

See my thread with 24p, 30p, and 50i images. Do any look like the 25p issues?

[Zsolt Gordos]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

See my thread with 24p, 30p, and 50i images. Do any look like the 25p issues?

Hi Steve, certainly these shots look much better than any of the V1E shots and none of them show the "oil painting" effect. The 3rd photo is visibly softer than the others - I wonder which setting has been used.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

See my thread with 24p, 30p, and 50i images. Do any look like the 25p issues?

No, nothing like the 25P effect.

Good news for us as 30P is fine so 25P will be fine when someone pulls their finger out.

TT

[Peter Sieben]

There seems to be more info from Sony in The Netherlands, according to Global DVC. Read my other message at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...d=1#post593516

[Bob Grant]

It seems our V1P has been released, with a firmware update!
We'll need to do some serious testing to confirm how it's working I guess and I'm a bit pressed for time so it'll be a while before I can to it. Interesting to hear if anyone else has 'fixed' unit in Asia or Europe.

[John Hewat]

My V1P arrived today (in Melbourne, Australia) and I can safely say there is a distinct difference in quality between 50i and 25p. My dealer assures me that it is a fixed model - that in fact all models in Australia are fixed.

I don't know well enough what terms best describe it but the difference is there for sure.

My family couldn't see the difference so maybe it's just because I was looking for it.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by John Hewat

My V1P arrived today (in Melbourne, Australia) and I can safely say there is a distinct difference in quality between 50i and 25p. My dealer assures me that it is a fixed model - that in fact all models in Australia are fixed.

I don't know well enough what terms best describe it but the difference is there for sure.

My family couldn't see the difference so maybe it's just because I was looking for it.

John,

There is no fix yet!

Over Xmas there was a firmware update but that only helped reduce the "oil paint" effect but did nothing for all of the other problems, i.e over sharpening, aliasing of fine detail, and destruction of fine detail etc etc.

Check out the V1 Progressive Sharpness thread. I have posted pics that show at least some of the problems. My dealer is desperately trying to get information out of Sony regarding a "real fix" to the 25P issue and when we are likely to get it.

The big problem at the moment is the lack of information coming from Sony. In my dealings with them they have been extremely tight lipped.

You could do your dealer a favour a let him know so he can let his customers know that 25P is still not as it should be. Actually, it's a long way from where it should be in terms of quality.

I shall post information as I receive it to the "V1 Progressive Sharpness?" thread.

If if your dealer doesn't know of the continuing issues with the V1 rest assured that Sony does and is working on a solution.

TT

[John Hewat]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

There is no fix yet!

Over Xmas there was a firmware update but that only helped reduce the "oil paint" effect but did nothing for all of the other problems, i.e over sharpening, aliasing of fine detail, and destruction of fine detail etc etc.

Strange, the guys absolutely and positively assured me that the problems were 100% resolved.

I'll call them in the morning to see if anyone else has complained. But they told me that I was in their second batch of distributed customers so I suspect that if anyone else had noticed, they would have complained already...

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by John Hewat

Strange, the guys absolutely and positively assured me that the problems were 100% resolved.

I'll call them in the morning to see if anyone else has complained. But they told me that I was in their second batch of distributed customers so I suspect that if anyone else had noticed, they would have complained already...

It is your choice who you believe.

No worries.

TT

[John Hewat]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

It is your choice who you believe.

I'm a natural born cynic so I'll always believe the worse of two stories.

Plus I can clearly see a difference!

If 25p is supposed to be equal in quality to 25i then something is definitely askew...

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by John Hewat

I'm a natural born cynic so I'll always believe the worse of two stories.

Plus I can clearly see a difference!

If 25p is supposed to be equal in quality to 25i then something is definitely askew...

Check out the V1 Progressive Sharpness? thread and look at the pics I posted. See if you see similar artefacts to those in my pics.

Some of the problems only arise or become very obvious in certain conditions. Have a look at the thread as I outline all of the issues that remain. Bob Grant a fellow countryman of yours makes a valid point about how typical camera testing techniques might not show the problems. I fully support that view.

Cheers

TT

[John Hewat]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Check out the V1 Progressive Sharpness? thread and look at the pics I posted. See if you see similar artefacts to those in my pics.

Some of the problems only arise or become very obvious in certain conditions. Have a look at the thread as I outline all of the issues that remain. Bob Grant a fellow countryman of yours makes a valid point about how typical camera testing techniques might not show the problems. I fully support that view.

Cheers

TT

My knowledge of the vocabulary isn't sound enough to ensure I am talking about the same things.

I think you mentioned somewhere "sparkly noise" and I definietly see that - a lot of it! And at times, edges just wither away to nothing. You're right, it's not all the time, it seems to come and go. In my footage, I think it was to do with the light conditions, and I wasn't sure whether it was simply a normal reaction or not. But I switch to interlaced and the image is flawless all the time.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by John Hewat

My knowledge of the vocabulary isn't sound enough to ensure I am talking about the same things.

I think you mentioned somewhere "sparkly noise" and I definietly see that - a lot of it! And at times, edges just wither away to nothing. You're right, it's not all the time, it seems to come and go. In my footage, I think it was to do with the light conditions, and I wasn't sure whether it was simply a normal reaction or not. But I switch to interlaced and the image is flawless all the time.

The stairstepping or aliasing of edges is particularly bad in 25P and was the first thing I noticed having received the camera back from "fixing." On bright or high contrast edges these can literally sparkle like crazy.

The problems go from the sublime to the ridiculous from dark area detail being obliterated, oil paint effect, copious block noise, aliasing and twinkling highlights all add up to a disastrous image.

None of it is supposed to be normal thankfully. 25P is supposed to be the same high quality as interlaced.

TT

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

This thread is a dog chasing it's tail; going no where.

~For point of clarity, Sony EU, US, Japan, Sony Canada, Sony Pacific Rim, Latin American, and Sony Australia are different companies, different groups, and different sets of management. It's quite possible that the Australian models or any other regional area model have a fix in place prior to other regions.

~Obviously there have been some difficulties with the 25p/50i units. Although Sony haven't officially made a statement, it's clear a problem exists.

~Obviously, there are some imaginations at play as well.

~Of course 25p and 50i appear differently; to expect them to appear identically is not reasonable; they're different formats that require different handling techniques.

Needless to say, there is no further point in continuing to argue about whether ants, stairstepping, sparklies, oil paint, or other new/real/imagined/supposed/inferred problems exist.
If someone can post an actual statement from Sony, a Sony dealer, a named Sony rep (not some dude met at a tradeshow that has no name), that either clarifies any problem, explains any problem, or provides information about the problem, please begin a new topic.

But this particular horse has been beaten to death in this thread.