Real 1080 24p @ 4:2:2???

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 9th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Bartolo

I spoke with an AJA rep yesterday about the new Sony camera with its HDMI output capability. When I asked him if AJA was going to be marketing any HDMI capable cards he just scoffed. He roared on about HDMI is a display configuration for consumer televisions only. When I pointed out to him that this seemed like a pretty good poor man's HD-SDI he laughed on; noting that nothing would supplant HD-SDI for uncompressed HD delivery and that the HDMI output on the Sony product was strictly for monitoring and of no use for ingest purposes. He stated AJA is not developing any HDMI capable products.

Well I have to agree with earlier posters in this thread. When the installed base of users with HDMI enabled cameras increases more vendors will design products to fit this market space. Now only if the HDMI connector had been designed to be anchored more securely so that it does not fall out all the time. You cannot beat the security of those BNC connectors.

Could you PM me with the name of the AJA rep you spoke with?

David Simpson · February 16th, 2007, 09:42 PM

Thanks for all the amazing info!!!
This is really relevant as I am in the process of setting up a studio for a three camera shoot and am on a tight budget.

There will be two people in front of the cameras. The idea is to use two existing DV format cameras for the frontal shots, and one HDV for the wide, two person shot. In post there will be keying and it will finally wind up encoded to Flash for Internet distribution. This is where it gets interesting, the final resolution will be only 400 x 300, so the footage from the HDV camera can be used as a two person, wide shot, or cropped to a semi profile of either one of the subjects. Theoretically, the three cameras will provide 5 usable shots to choose from.

Option 1:
Use 2 DV cams and either an FX7 or V1U with the blackmagic intensity card and PC disk array . What audio concerns or issues are there if any using a beachtek xlr adapter instead of onboard XLR inputs?

OR

Option 2:
Use three HC3 cameras, (instead of an FX7/V1U) and output to several pcs disk arrays. How much simpler would the editing be using source footage from matching cameras?

Other considerations:
This may be a long term production method. What additional should I consider in the pursuit of the most cost efficient, and work flow efficient approach, while maximizing quality?
Such considerations having locked time code from an SDI capable camera, etc...

Thanks,

Mike Gorski · April 27th, 2007, 02:48 PM

Like David said thanks for everyone's imput. I'm learning so much. Being torn between the V1 and A1 the HDMI output is really attractive. With increasing technology I feel that I could benefit from this down the road as opposed to be stuck with the A1's HDV stream and only HDV stream. I guess we can only sit back and wait for things to develop.

Ron Little · May 4th, 2007, 09:47 AM

This is an interesting topic I have just had a new dual quad core computer built with the intensity card.

My first attempt to use it sent me back to the maker to work out some software issues. Now that I have it back I have captured my first clip with the intensity card and am very pleased with the picture.

I took my V1 on auto out and shot a bird then captured it with the intensity card. I know what people say about it not making the picture any better but the picture is great so who cares. What I am interested in is changing it into a format that is better for editing and storage for possible re-editing.

I think this is where this card is really going to shine. Think about it I got a capture card and codec for hd for $250 instead of the $600 or $700 it would take to buy cineform with similar results. Where am I going wrong?

Heath McKnight · May 4th, 2007, 10:16 AM

I want to try the Intensity and may end up buying it. Seems like an awesome solution!

heath

Ron Little · May 4th, 2007, 10:24 AM

Anyone know where I can post a V1 clip captured with the intensity card for scrutiny?

Heath McKnight · May 4th, 2007, 11:00 AM

Ron,

I'll let Chris H. know and see what we can do. What I'd love to see is a QT (if you're on Final Cut Pro) of the clip captured via firewire and then the same clip but captured via the Intensity.

heath

John Cline · May 4th, 2007, 12:14 PM

The gains from using the Intensity card are only when you capture LIVE images from the V1, not those already recorded to tape. After it's on tape, it's already taken the HDV MPEG2 quality hit. I wouldn't expect the images taken from tape to look any different coming through the Intensity or Firewire. I WOULD expect to see a huge difference between footage off tape and footage captured live from the camera through the Intensity.

Ron Little · May 4th, 2007, 01:23 PM

Heath I am on a pc and I hear that Premiere doesn’t do QuickTime justice maybe CS3 will.

John I got it. I am not trying to get any gains on quality. It is for ease of editing and re-editable storage.

Heath McKnight · May 4th, 2007, 01:28 PM

I understand, actually, that the Intensity captures it as 4:2:2 1920x1080 and makes the HDV footage look great. However, if you can bypass the HDV codec, you're doing better, obviously.

Either way, I love working with HDV and plan on really using the V1u more often. I'm still a Z1u/FX1/DVX100a user.

heath

Ron Little · May 4th, 2007, 01:31 PM

Heath I see your in Florida also where is Wellington?

Heath McKnight · May 4th, 2007, 01:45 PM

Ron,

Wellington is west of West Palm Beach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington%2C_Florida

heath

Ron Little · May 4th, 2007, 02:01 PM

I will capture the same clip via fire wire and intensity card. I am looking for a place to put them so people can download them to compare.

Heath McKnight · May 4th, 2007, 02:02 PM

I let Chris know, so hold tight while I find out.

heath

Seth Bloombaum · May 4th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Little

...(using HDMI capture) I am not trying to get any gains on quality. It is for ease of editing and re-editable storage.

Why not go to Cineform, then?

Pro: timecode!
Established workflow. A nice DVinfo forum all its own, with other users.
Cineform codec arguably better than BMD MJPEG (I've not seen it, myself).
Easy editing and re-editable storage.
Soon to come cross-platform compatibility with FCP.
Works fine with firewire capture.
4:2:2 codec, etc.

Con: Cost?
Raid 0 for best performance (does anyone know what disk config will support BMD MJPEG?)

BTW, Cineform capture utilities will see the Intensity.

February 16th, 2007, 09:42 PM	#32
David Simpson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 17	Newbie question Thanks for all the amazing info!!! This is really relevant as I am in the process of setting up a studio for a three camera shoot and am on a tight budget. There will be two people in front of the cameras. The idea is to use two existing DV format cameras for the frontal shots, and one HDV for the wide, two person shot. In post there will be keying and it will finally wind up encoded to Flash for Internet distribution. This is where it gets interesting, the final resolution will be only 400 x 300, so the footage from the HDV camera can be used as a two person, wide shot, or cropped to a semi profile of either one of the subjects. Theoretically, the three cameras will provide 5 usable shots to choose from. Option 1: Use 2 DV cams and either an FX7 or V1U with the blackmagic intensity card and PC disk array . What audio concerns or issues are there if any using a beachtek xlr adapter instead of onboard XLR inputs? OR Option 2: Use three HC3 cameras, (instead of an FX7/V1U) and output to several pcs disk arrays. How much simpler would the editing be using source footage from matching cameras? Other considerations: This may be a long term production method. What additional should I consider in the pursuit of the most cost efficient, and work flow efficient approach, while maximizing quality? Such considerations having locked time code from an SDI capable camera, etc... Thanks,

May 4th, 2007, 10:16 AM	#35
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I want to try the Intensity and may end up buying it. Seems like an awesome solution! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 4th, 2007, 11:00 AM	#37
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Ron, I'll let Chris H. know and see what we can do. What I'd love to see is a QT (if you're on Final Cut Pro) of the clip captured via firewire and then the same clip but captured via the Intensity. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 4th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#40
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I understand, actually, that the Intensity captures it as 4:2:2 1920x1080 and makes the HDV footage look great. However, if you can bypass the HDV codec, you're doing better, obviously. Either way, I love working with HDV and plan on really using the V1u more often. I'm still a Z1u/FX1/DVX100a user. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 4th, 2007, 01:45 PM	#42
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Ron, Wellington is west of West Palm Beach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington%2C_Florida heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 27th, 2007, 02:48 PM	#33
Mike Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 163	Like David said thanks for everyone's imput. I'm learning so much. Being torn between the V1 and A1 the HDMI output is really attractive. With increasing technology I feel that I could benefit from this down the road as opposed to be stuck with the A1's HDV stream and only HDV stream. I guess we can only sit back and wait for things to develop.

May 4th, 2007, 09:47 AM	#34
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	This is an interesting topic I have just had a new dual quad core computer built with the intensity card. My first attempt to use it sent me back to the maker to work out some software issues. Now that I have it back I have captured my first clip with the intensity card and am very pleased with the picture. I took my V1 on auto out and shot a bird then captured it with the intensity card. I know what people say about it not making the picture any better but the picture is great so who cares. What I am interested in is changing it into a format that is better for editing and storage for possible re-editing. I think this is where this card is really going to shine. Think about it I got a capture card and codec for hd for $250 instead of the $600 or $700 it would take to buy cineform with similar results. Where am I going wrong?

May 4th, 2007, 10:24 AM	#36
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Anyone know where I can post a V1 clip captured with the intensity card for scrutiny?

May 4th, 2007, 12:14 PM	#38
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	The gains from using the Intensity card are only when you capture LIVE images from the V1, not those already recorded to tape. After it's on tape, it's already taken the HDV MPEG2 quality hit. I wouldn't expect the images taken from tape to look any different coming through the Intensity or Firewire. I WOULD expect to see a huge difference between footage off tape and footage captured live from the camera through the Intensity.

May 4th, 2007, 01:23 PM	#39
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Heath I am on a pc and I hear that Premiere doesn’t do QuickTime justice maybe CS3 will. John I got it. I am not trying to get any gains on quality. It is for ease of editing and re-editable storage.

May 4th, 2007, 01:31 PM	#41
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Heath I see your in Florida also where is Wellington?

May 4th, 2007, 02:01 PM	#43
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	I will capture the same clip via fire wire and intensity card. I am looking for a place to put them so people can download them to compare.

May 4th, 2007, 02:02 PM	#44
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I let Chris know, so hold tight while I find out. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog