Synching timecode to external sound recorder? at DVinfo.net

Mike Paterson · November 22nd, 2006, 10:09 AM

I understand the V1 will allow you to sync timecode with other cameras via firewire. Are there any flash/hard disk sound recorders which accept timecode synching via firewire?

Does anyone know the 35mm equivalent FOV of the wide end of the lens? And the FOV with the wide adaptor?

Thanks

Bill Ravens · November 22nd, 2006, 10:31 AM

www.sounddevices.com

Mike Paterson · November 22nd, 2006, 10:47 AM

The Sound Devices recorders look like they connect via LEMO-5. Other recorders I've looked at are the Edirol R4, Fostex FR2, and Tascam HD-P2. None seem to sync timecode via firewire.

Steve Johnson · November 26th, 2006, 10:58 AM

i don't know of any that sync to firewire, but the HD-P2 should sync to the analog video output from just about any video camera. i've done it with a Canon GL1 and it works great.

steve

Vladimir Gitlevich · April 25th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Steve,

How did you do that?

I have been trying to figure out how to sync it with Z1 and have failed so far.

I have tried to follow the Tascam's manual, which is a little sketchy in that section, but the main reason is probably my ignorance. I thought I could have HD-P2 start/stop recording based on the video signal from the camera. Am I wrong? If so, what does sync accomplish?

Thanks a lot!
Vladimir

Seth Bloombaum · April 25th, 2007, 07:57 PM

The HD-P2 will not pull TC off the Z1 and sync to it, nor will it start/stop when you record on the cam. A typical workflow to acheive best timecode sync in recording is like this:

Preset a timecode, usually the time of day in the TC menus.
Select "preset" not "regen" or "regenerate" in the menus (this will not be needed for some cams, but isn't bad even if not needed).
Select "Free Run" (not record run) in the camcorder's TC menus, click "OK" just as your watch or clock comes up on the time you preset.

Do the same with the HD-P2 (sorry, not familiar with the menu structure).

Now, your timecodes should both be running, and if you took some care, should be within a half-second or so of each other.

Be sure both devices were set either to NDF or DF (non drop frame, or drop frame). Choose which you like best, but set it the same on both. Select the proper frame rate as well.

Bonus points:
The HD-P2 offers sync to video - this is good, and you should do it. Plug a cable in from the composite video output of the cam to the clock in/video ref input of the HD-P2. You'll probably need a piece of coax with an RCA at one end, and a BNC at the other. Select frame lock as the TC mode, or whatever they call the mode where the clock will lock to external video.

What this does is to assure that the clocks are ticking at the same rate, and therefore no timecode drift.

Next step - figure out how you sync these sources in your favorite NLE! (be sure to work out your full post workflow before you commit $, time, talent, etc. to the production workflow!) Then, slide the audio one direction or the other to acheive sync. The resulting sync offset should be good for all the time the cam and deck were connected. Eg., Video TC = Audio TC plus 17 frames.

The video camera should also always be recording sound, to serve as a sync reference for lining up your tracks in editing.

This all sounds harder than it is, in my opinion. The NLE you're using definitely makes a huge difference for ease in getting final sync on the timeline.

And, especially for short takes, there's something to be said for using a clap board, with take numbers and audible slates too. I usually use something like this workflow for longer event recordings.

November 22nd, 2006, 10:09 AM	#1
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	Synching timecode to external sound recorder? I understand the V1 will allow you to sync timecode with other cameras via firewire. Are there any flash/hard disk sound recorders which accept timecode synching via firewire? Does anyone know the 35mm equivalent FOV of the wide end of the lens? And the FOV with the wide adaptor? Thanks

April 25th, 2007, 04:24 PM	#5
Vladimir Gitlevich New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA, 94102 Posts: 11	Steve, How did you do that? I have been trying to figure out how to sync it with Z1 and have failed so far. I have tried to follow the Tascam's manual, which is a little sketchy in that section, but the main reason is probably my ignorance. I thought I could have HD-P2 start/stop recording based on the video signal from the camera. Am I wrong? If so, what does sync accomplish? Thanks a lot! Vladimir Last edited by Vladimir Gitlevich; April 25th, 2007 at 06:12 PM.

November 22nd, 2006, 10:31 AM	#2
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	www.sounddevices.com

November 22nd, 2006, 10:47 AM	#3
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	The Sound Devices recorders look like they connect via LEMO-5. Other recorders I've looked at are the Edirol R4, Fostex FR2, and Tascam HD-P2. None seem to sync timecode via firewire.

November 26th, 2006, 10:58 AM	#4
Steve Johnson New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 5	i don't know of any that sync to firewire, but the HD-P2 should sync to the analog video output from just about any video camera. i've done it with a Canon GL1 and it works great. steve

April 25th, 2007, 07:57 PM	#6
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	The HD-P2 will not pull TC off the Z1 and sync to it, nor will it start/stop when you record on the cam. A typical workflow to acheive best timecode sync in recording is like this: Preset a timecode, usually the time of day in the TC menus. Select "preset" not "regen" or "regenerate" in the menus (this will not be needed for some cams, but isn't bad even if not needed). Select "Free Run" (not record run) in the camcorder's TC menus, click "OK" just as your watch or clock comes up on the time you preset. Do the same with the HD-P2 (sorry, not familiar with the menu structure). Now, your timecodes should both be running, and if you took some care, should be within a half-second or so of each other. Be sure both devices were set either to NDF or DF (non drop frame, or drop frame). Choose which you like best, but set it the same on both. Select the proper frame rate as well. Bonus points: The HD-P2 offers sync to video - this is good, and you should do it. Plug a cable in from the composite video output of the cam to the clock in/video ref input of the HD-P2. You'll probably need a piece of coax with an RCA at one end, and a BNC at the other. Select frame lock as the TC mode, or whatever they call the mode where the clock will lock to external video. What this does is to assure that the clocks are ticking at the same rate, and therefore no timecode drift. Next step - figure out how you sync these sources in your favorite NLE! (be sure to work out your full post workflow before you commit $, time, talent, etc. to the production workflow!) Then, slide the audio one direction or the other to acheive sync. The resulting sync offset should be good for all the time the cam and deck were connected. Eg., Video TC = Audio TC plus 17 frames. The video camera should also always be recording sound, to serve as a sync reference for lining up your tracks in editing. This all sounds harder than it is, in my opinion. The NLE you're using definitely makes a huge difference for ease in getting final sync on the timeline. And, especially for short takes, there's something to be said for using a clap board, with take numbers and audible slates too. I usually use something like this workflow for longer event recordings.