24p and quality

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Alex Huppenthal

Perhaps I need more info. HDV is a 1080/60i format. Camera capabilities are throttled a bit by how the video leaves the camera. If it exits at 1080/24p and is recorded @ 1080/60i well, I'm learning this is just how it is with HDV stadnard recording. I guess the rev to HDV recording is AVCHD.

I'll go study the AVCHD offerings.

I think you do indeed need to learn a lot more about HDV. AVCHD offers even less quality as it only for consumer camcorders -- AT THIS TIME.

[Alex Huppenthal]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I think you do indeed need to learn a lot more about HDV. AVCHD offers even less quality as it only for consumer camcorders -- AT THIS TIME.

Steve,

yep. just read about it. This thread about 24p quality is a bit generic for the HVR V1 heading.

I'll just have to wait to try out the V1. There's only so much speculation one can do. One this camera is available we'll all have a shot at making suggestions, asking questions...

My core curiosity about the V1 is how it will hand 24p to NLE, and if there will be some cool innovation there.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Alex, there won't be any "coolness" factor to how NLE's read the 24p from the Sony V1U camcorder. Most apps support pulldown removal now for SD and interframe compression. Similar tools that will be virtually invisible will do the same thing for the HDV stream and it's GOP format. Either you remove the pulldown automatically on capture, you remove it post capture in realtime editing, or you don't remove it at all. Some apps may simply set a preference that allows this to be done invisibly when it sees information coming in that fits the 24p profile, as it is currently done with some NLE's and 24pSD.

[Heath McKnight]

Originally Posted by Alex Huppenthal

I'll just have to wait to try out the V1. There's only so much speculation one can do. One this camera is available we'll all have a shot at making suggestions, asking questions...

That's the best thing to do.

hwm

[Alex Huppenthal]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

That's the best thing to do.

hwm

The more I hear about this camera the more interesting it becomes. A day in the field, and a few hours with FC, and I'll have all my pre-buy questions answered.

[Heath McKnight]

Originally Posted by Alex Huppenthal

The more I hear about this camera the more interesting it becomes. A day in the field, and a few hours with FC, and I'll have all my pre-buy questions answered.

Sounds like a plan. I bet a daily rental will be competitive, or maybe you can shoot some stuff near a dealer and check it out on an HDTV before buying. Regardless, know that I feel like it's one of the best cameras out.

heath

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Alex, there won't be any "coolness" factor to how NLE's read the 24p from the Sony V1U camcorder.

DSE is correct. I'll only add that adding/removing oulldown is how film has been electronically edited for decades. Sony is using a decades old industry standard.

The problem is that certain NLE companies, despite realizing MPEG-2 IBP acquistion was coming, never wrote their HDV support as anything but a patch. Had they implemented an MPEG-2 engine to meet MPEG-2 standards -- as those designing LSI decoders have done -- these delays would not have been encountered. And, perhaps more importantly, the false claims that JVC and Sony have somehow "created" weird versions of 24p would not have been started.

Having created patches, and patches to patches -- the NLE must once again be patched. This requires resources during mid-release periods and may, therefore, result in delays. Avid's Liquid having been born as an MPEG-2 IBP editor should be the easiest to add pulldown functions to. But, Avid refuses disclose what it's doing with Liquid.

We know Vegas will have support in December (I think) and EDIUS 4 has it now. I have NOT seen anything FROM Adobe, Apple, or Avid that actually states date and functionality. For example, will Apple only support 24p via AIC? That's a very bad option as AIC doesn't work well with interlaced MPEG-2. But there are problems capturing native HDV with FCP now that haven't been fixed. I suspect 90% of Apple resources are on FCP 6 and FCP 5 isn't getting the best and the brightest.

Avid makes decisions based upon what they want to sell. XDCAM HD will, for example, only be supported by the $5000 Composer software. Yet, it's built-into Vegas at $500.