Canon XH-G1/A1 to Sony HVR-v1 compare?

Heath McKnight · November 12th, 2006, 12:01 PM

Pete,

Thanks for the info!

heath

Tom Roper · November 12th, 2006, 12:04 PM

Also have observed:

- the A1's single image stabilization setting is more effective than all 3 of the Z1's. I'm just saying it's better, not that the Z1's is bad, in fact it's excellent, especially the "hard" setting.

- Canon takes the lead on automatic focusing as well, with an "instant" focus" mode that comes from the addition of an external focus sensor. Again, the Z1 auto focus remains excellent, but the bar was raised by the A1. Perhaps the V1 is improved as well.

The Z1's superb top-mounted LCD screen is the #1 most missed feature on the A1.

With the Z1 it was easier to quickly come up with settings in the picture profiles that gave me the look I was after. The A1 required more trial and error experimentation with its many settings.

Heath McKnight · November 12th, 2006, 12:13 PM

They aren't progressive, per se, but certainly are very close to it. Maybe that does explain the delay with Apple. I had no problems with 60i and 30f in FCP 5.0.4. I'd like to see if 24f is supported now in 5.1.2 (and above).

Here's some in-depth detail about the Canons, from DVInfo:

http://dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/index.php

And here's a first-look from Douglas Spotted Eagle on the V1u:

http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony/firstlookv1u.php

heath

Daniel Boswell · November 12th, 2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wolla

I am also not overly fond of the Canon's smaller, somewhat "gimmicky" appearing LCD. The Sony V1U's LCD is much larger looking than the Canon.
I need to use my cam on a monopod used as a means of getting "over the shoulder" shots, and the larger 3.5" LCD on the Sony would make that situation more do-able.

As an owner of both an FX1 and an A1 I would say that the LCD on the A1 is about half the size and resolution of the FX.

As someone who shoots primarily handheld and almost exclusively with the LCD open..the A1 is found wanting in comparison to FX.

Tony Tremble · November 12th, 2006, 02:34 PM

Heath and anyone who has used the V1.

Can you give us an idea how configurable the V1 is compared to the Canon. I am sure it's not just me who is interested in the picture profiles of the Sony.

In the Sony marketing bumf and Douglas Spotted Eagles' first look article mentions, "if you want to match a specific film look, it's not very hard to do, as the camcorder uses a 3D color Look Up Table (LUT)."

Can somebody clarify just how much control the user has of the LUT? Perhaps someone could compare the Sony image control directly with the Canon's. Will Sony users be able to swap "looks" in the same way Canon users can and are doing?

TT

Heath McKnight · November 12th, 2006, 02:59 PM

I like the added features on color and black levels the V1 has, which is a big welcome to a guy who uses the DVX100a just as much as the Z1/FX1. I also love that you can now name the Picture Profiles in the V1u. Most excellent indeed!

heath

Tony Tremble · November 12th, 2006, 04:17 PM

But what control over the image does the user have?
How does a user modify the 3d LUT?

Does the Sony have as much control over the image as the Canon A1/G1?

I am sure someone knows. :)

TT

Boyd Ostroff · November 12th, 2006, 04:24 PM

You can save your V1 picture profiles to memory sticks and share them with other users which is a nice new feature. I only played with the V1 for a little while, but AFAIK the only controls you have over image parameters are via picture profile menus just like the Z1 uses. However the V1 adds several new items to the menu.

Stu Holmes · November 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

But what control over the image does the user have?
How does a user modify the 3d LUT?

Does the Sony have as much control over the image as the Canon A1/G1?

I am sure someone knows. :)

TT

Well for the Picture Profile parameter adjustments, here's the items that can be modified in the Picture Profile menu on the Fx7 (V1 may be the same or have expanded capabilities) :

COLOR LEVEL (from -8 to +7)
COLOR PHASE (-7 greenish to +7 reddish)
SHARPNESS (0 to 15)
SKINTONE DTL (TYPE1 thru TYPE3 and also OFF)
WB SHIFT (-7 to +7)
CINEMATONE GAMMA (changes gamma curve to mimic film)
PROFILE NAME (you can change the names of all six Picture Profiles to anything you want).

You have 4 preset Picture profiles and 2 ones you can do custom profiles for, and all of them can be renamed.

Paulo Teixeira · November 12th, 2006, 07:43 PM

It’s safe to say that the V1u is in the same level playing field as the Canon XH-A1 and obviously there are features that one camcorder has that the other doesn’t and vise-versa but just because one camcorder’s imagers are a little bit bigger doesn’t necessarily mean it has more features. We’re not comparing the FX7 to the XH-A1 here.The Canon XH-G1 and the V1u are both professional camcorders that are geared toward the same people.

Peter Ferling · November 12th, 2006, 08:26 PM

Speculate in one hand, and place a real cam in the other, which one gets filled first? I agree. Only the XH-A1 is a real solution today as it's in stock, a month from now the game will change. I will purchase an A1 for the time being and get some work done. I'll wait for the purchase of my second cam until the V1U rolls out and I can be more informed then. I'll take the word of those whom already tested it and confirm those findings for my own way of doing things.

Nothing wrong with having too many choices, all within reach of DV production budget.

Heath McKnight · November 12th, 2006, 09:09 PM

I'd love to get my hands on the A1 or G1 and give it a test drive. Based on my experiences with the H1,Z1 and V1, I personally feel the Z1 is on par with the H1, even with it's added image controls, HD SDI out and more pixels, and I feel the V1 is better. Again, that's my opinion, but I'd love to try the new Canon units.

I do like the Canon a lot, don't get me wrong. But after using the Sony FX1 and Z1 for two years now, it's the camera I love best (followed by the DVX100a, which I've been using for nearly 3 years).

heath

Peter Ferling · November 12th, 2006, 09:23 PM

My thinking is the same about the V1U, once I pick it up, I may slap the plastic down and walk out it. If it's anything like my HC1 on steriods with manual controls.... OK, I need to stop this and go to bed. I have several hours of editing to do tommorrow. Must go... stop, no more thinking about this...

Heath McKnight · November 12th, 2006, 09:50 PM

I'll leave you with this, Peter. If you're comfortable with the PD-170's size and ergonomics, you'll LOVE the V1u.

heath

Tim Le · November 12th, 2006, 10:03 PM

I think both these cameras are great. Like another poster said, I'm not that worried about the image quality (since all these cameras are already pretty close) but I am more concerned about operator interfaces and ergonomics.

The main thing that attracts me to the V1U is the smaller size and lighter weight. I can always make the camera bigger and heavier with accessories but you can't make it smaller and lighter. Anything bigger and heavier than the V1U size, I really would prefer a true shoulder mount like the JVC HD200/250 or an XDCam.

The LCD monitor and VF are also likely better than the A1/G1. It's interesting that on the V1U you show peaking, zebras and a histogram all at the same if you wanted to. The handgrip on the V1U also looks more comfortable because it's curved like a traditional ENG lens grip, compared to the A1/G1 which look more like a flat slab. But the A1/G1 has a wider lens which I really want. I really need to see these cameras in person first before making a decision--hopefully this week at DV Expo.

November 12th, 2006, 12:01 PM	#16
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Pete, Thanks for the info! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 12th, 2006, 12:13 PM	#18
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	They aren't progressive, per se, but certainly are very close to it. Maybe that does explain the delay with Apple. I had no problems with 60i and 30f in FCP 5.0.4. I'd like to see if 24f is supported now in 5.1.2 (and above). Here's some in-depth detail about the Canons, from DVInfo: http://dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/index.php And here's a first-look from Douglas Spotted Eagle on the V1u: http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony/firstlookv1u.php heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 12th, 2006, 02:59 PM	#21
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I like the added features on color and black levels the V1 has, which is a big welcome to a guy who uses the DVX100a just as much as the Z1/FX1. I also love that you can now name the Picture Profiles in the V1u. Most excellent indeed! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 12th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#25
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	It’s safe to say that the V1u is in the same level playing field as the Canon XH-A1 and obviously there are features that one camcorder has that the other doesn’t and vise-versa but just because one camcorder’s imagers are a little bit bigger doesn’t necessarily mean it has more features. We’re not comparing the FX7 to the XH-A1 here.The Canon XH-G1 and the V1u are both professional camcorders that are geared toward the same people. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

November 12th, 2006, 09:09 PM	#27
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'd love to get my hands on the A1 or G1 and give it a test drive. Based on my experiences with the H1,Z1 and V1, I personally feel the Z1 is on par with the H1, even with it's added image controls, HD SDI out and more pixels, and I feel the V1 is better. Again, that's my opinion, but I'd love to try the new Canon units. I do like the Canon a lot, don't get me wrong. But after using the Sony FX1 and Z1 for two years now, it's the camera I love best (followed by the DVX100a, which I've been using for nearly 3 years). heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 12th, 2006, 12:04 PM	#17
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Also have observed: - the A1's single image stabilization setting is more effective than all 3 of the Z1's. I'm just saying it's better, not that the Z1's is bad, in fact it's excellent, especially the "hard" setting. - Canon takes the lead on automatic focusing as well, with an "instant" focus" mode that comes from the addition of an external focus sensor. Again, the Z1 auto focus remains excellent, but the bar was raised by the A1. Perhaps the V1 is improved as well. The Z1's superb top-mounted LCD screen is the #1 most missed feature on the A1. With the Z1 it was easier to quickly come up with settings in the picture profiles that gave me the look I was after. The A1 required more trial and error experimentation with its many settings.

November 12th, 2006, 02:34 PM	#20
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	Heath and anyone who has used the V1. Can you give us an idea how configurable the V1 is compared to the Canon. I am sure it's not just me who is interested in the picture profiles of the Sony. In the Sony marketing bumf and Douglas Spotted Eagles' first look article mentions, "if you want to match a specific film look, it's not very hard to do, as the camcorder uses a 3D color Look Up Table (LUT)." Can somebody clarify just how much control the user has of the LUT? Perhaps someone could compare the Sony image control directly with the Canon's. Will Sony users be able to swap "looks" in the same way Canon users can and are doing? TT

November 12th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#22
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	But what control over the image does the user have? How does a user modify the 3d LUT? Does the Sony have as much control over the image as the Canon A1/G1? I am sure someone knows. :) TT

November 12th, 2006, 04:24 PM	#23
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	You can save your V1 picture profiles to memory sticks and share them with other users which is a nice new feature. I only played with the V1 for a little while, but AFAIK the only controls you have over image parameters are via picture profile menus just like the Z1 uses. However the V1 adds several new items to the menu.

November 12th, 2006, 08:26 PM	#26
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Speculate in one hand, and place a real cam in the other, which one gets filled first? I agree. Only the XH-A1 is a real solution today as it's in stock, a month from now the game will change. I will purchase an A1 for the time being and get some work done. I'll wait for the purchase of my second cam until the V1U rolls out and I can be more informed then. I'll take the word of those whom already tested it and confirm those findings for my own way of doing things. Nothing wrong with having too many choices, all within reach of DV production budget.

November 12th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#28
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	My thinking is the same about the V1U, once I pick it up, I may slap the plastic down and walk out it. If it's anything like my HC1 on steriods with manual controls.... OK, I need to stop this and go to bed. I have several hours of editing to do tommorrow. Must go... stop, no more thinking about this...

November 12th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#29
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'll leave you with this, Peter. If you're comfortable with the PD-170's size and ergonomics, you'll LOVE the V1u. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 12th, 2006, 10:03 PM	#30
Tim Le Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 350	I think both these cameras are great. Like another poster said, I'm not that worried about the image quality (since all these cameras are already pretty close) but I am more concerned about operator interfaces and ergonomics. The main thing that attracts me to the V1U is the smaller size and lighter weight. I can always make the camera bigger and heavier with accessories but you can't make it smaller and lighter. Anything bigger and heavier than the V1U size, I really would prefer a true shoulder mount like the JVC HD200/250 or an XDCam. The LCD monitor and VF are also likely better than the A1/G1. It's interesting that on the V1U you show peaking, zebras and a histogram all at the same if you wanted to. The handgrip on the V1U also looks more comfortable because it's curved like a traditional ENG lens grip, compared to the A1/G1 which look more like a flat slab. But the A1/G1 has a wider lens which I really want. I really need to see these cameras in person first before making a decision--hopefully this week at DV Expo.