Audio at DVinfo.net

Andrew Clark · October 21st, 2006, 01:32 PM

Is the audio sampling rate the same as other HDV cams?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 21st, 2006, 07:19 PM

Yes. The HDV audio standard is mpeg1 layer II audio, 48k/16bit, at 384Kpbs

Andrew Clark · October 21st, 2006, 10:54 PM

Thanks DSE!!

By the way, liked your review of this cam in the October issue of Studio Monthly. Seems like those ClearVid CMOS sensors paired with the Carl Ziess optics produce a pretty good picture.

Maybe they can enhance the audio section next?!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 21st, 2006, 11:17 PM

Not sure what you mean by "enhance the audio section next..."

All digital video is sampled at 48k/16 bit.
Where HDV is unique is that it's a compressed audio format of MPEG1/LayerII audio.
For dialog and general use, I'd wager a fair bet that you (and no one else) cannot distinguish the difference between uncompressed and HDV audio. If we're talking about high dynamic/wide bandwidth audio, I wouldn't use an uncompressed recording from a camcorder anyway. The DACs in virtually all camcorders leave a lot to be desired.

Andrew Clark · October 21st, 2006, 11:22 PM

So what's the major difference between PCM audio and MPEG1/Layer II audio? Is it just the bit rate?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 21st, 2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Clark

So what's the major difference between PCM audio and MPEG1/Layer II audio? Is it just the bit rate?

PCM audio is uncompressed. MPEG audio is compressed. HDV audio is akin to extremely high bitrate MP3.

Andrew Clark · October 21st, 2006, 11:38 PM

Thanks again DSE; appreciate you sharing your knowledge for newbie's like myself!!

Brian S. Nelson · October 22nd, 2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

For dialog and general use, I'd wager a fair bet that you (and no one else) cannot distinguish the difference between uncompressed and HDV audio. If we're talking about high dynamic/wide bandwidth audio, I wouldn't use an uncompressed recording from a camcorder anyway. The DACs in virtually all camcorders leave a lot to be desired.

Is there, or will there ever, be a way to sync the V1 with an external audio recorder (e.g., my sound devices 744t)? Perhaps a box that will extract the time code that is sent to the DR60? MPEG1/LayerII really screws up the rapid modulations in many bird songs - of which the accurate recording of is admittedly not "general use".

Steve Mullen · October 22nd, 2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Where HDV is unique is that it's a compressed audio format of MPEG1/LayerII audio.

JVC's 19Mbps ProHD has room in the tape track for two PCM audio channels. There is no room in 25Mbps HDV.

XDCAM HD has PCM audio.

Chris Hocking · October 22nd, 2006, 10:27 PM

Brian, you could always send the timecode as an audio signal to the V1. There are devices out there that allow you to do that. Someone else may be able to fill you in on the specifics.

Marshall Ewig · October 24th, 2006, 05:24 AM

I assume from this thread that there is no practical way to derive the TC from the lanc output (at least not until someone makes a little black box)?

I'd have to consider this to be handicap for anyone needing to TC sync a decent audio recorder.

I bring this up because one possible project on the horizon that may bring me back into the "biz" would be producing a series of music performance DVDs (and I know without a doubt that the HDV spec is not the best for high-quality audio).

I had read about the capability (but never saw it demoed) that two or more ZI's could be TC synced with one remote control. That would certainly make a master and a b-roll camera footage easy to line up for editing.

I'm wondering if the V1 has this feature also?

But getting back to the audio -- several choices would be the new Tascam TC recorder, maybe the Motu Traveler (feeding a robust notebook) for more than 2 channels, etc.

With the Cannon's TC output, plus the brand new JVC, such a setup would be easy to do.

I know you can clap a stick before each take and start sync that way, but can you maintain over a long set? I'd feel much more confident with TC-enabled dual system audio (you know, like the old movie days).

Chris Hocking · October 24th, 2006, 07:06 AM

Marshall, I believe the V1 actually has some more advanced timecode features than the Z1, and you can actually "sync" the cameras together via the firewire cable. I guess you should check the manual (or the V1 forum) for specifics.

Also, have a look at this device (Lanc MIDI Time Code Generator):

http://www.avitresearch.co.uk/lancmtc.htm

October 21st, 2006, 01:32 PM	#1
Andrew Clark Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 477	Audio Is the audio sampling rate the same as other HDV cams?

October 21st, 2006, 07:19 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Yes. The HDV audio standard is mpeg1 layer II audio, 48k/16bit, at 384Kpbs __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

October 21st, 2006, 11:17 PM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Not sure what you mean by "enhance the audio section next..." All digital video is sampled at 48k/16 bit. Where HDV is unique is that it's a compressed audio format of MPEG1/LayerII audio. For dialog and general use, I'd wager a fair bet that you (and no one else) cannot distinguish the difference between uncompressed and HDV audio. If we're talking about high dynamic/wide bandwidth audio, I wouldn't use an uncompressed recording from a camcorder anyway. The DACs in virtually all camcorders leave a lot to be desired. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

October 21st, 2006, 10:54 PM	#3
Andrew Clark Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 477	Thanks DSE!! By the way, liked your review of this cam in the October issue of Studio Monthly. Seems like those ClearVid CMOS sensors paired with the Carl Ziess optics produce a pretty good picture. Maybe they can enhance the audio section next?!

October 21st, 2006, 11:22 PM	#5
Andrew Clark Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 477	So what's the major difference between PCM audio and MPEG1/Layer II audio? Is it just the bit rate?

October 21st, 2006, 11:38 PM	#7
Andrew Clark Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 477	Thanks again DSE; appreciate you sharing your knowledge for newbie's like myself!!

October 22nd, 2006, 10:27 PM	#10
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Brian, you could always send the timecode as an audio signal to the V1. There are devices out there that allow you to do that. Someone else may be able to fill you in on the specifics.

October 24th, 2006, 05:24 AM	#11
Marshall Ewig Tourist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 3	I assume from this thread that there is no practical way to derive the TC from the lanc output (at least not until someone makes a little black box)? I'd have to consider this to be handicap for anyone needing to TC sync a decent audio recorder. I bring this up because one possible project on the horizon that may bring me back into the "biz" would be producing a series of music performance DVDs (and I know without a doubt that the HDV spec is not the best for high-quality audio). I had read about the capability (but never saw it demoed) that two or more ZI's could be TC synced with one remote control. That would certainly make a master and a b-roll camera footage easy to line up for editing. I'm wondering if the V1 has this feature also? But getting back to the audio -- several choices would be the new Tascam TC recorder, maybe the Motu Traveler (feeding a robust notebook) for more than 2 channels, etc. With the Cannon's TC output, plus the brand new JVC, such a setup would be easy to do. I know you can clap a stick before each take and start sync that way, but can you maintain over a long set? I'd feel much more confident with TC-enabled dual system audio (you know, like the old movie days).

October 24th, 2006, 07:06 AM	#12
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Marshall, I believe the V1 actually has some more advanced timecode features than the Z1, and you can actually "sync" the cameras together via the firewire cable. I guess you should check the manual (or the V1 forum) for specifics. Also, have a look at this device (Lanc MIDI Time Code Generator): http://www.avitresearch.co.uk/lancmtc.htm