V1 truly worth it over the Z1? 1080p?

Heath McKnight · October 16th, 2006, 08:19 PM

If you need a camera now, get what's best. Personally, out of all the HDV cameras (and I've used all except the Canon A1/G1), the Z1 is the best for my hard-earned money.

heath

Floris van Eck · October 16th, 2006, 08:26 PM

I won't need it now, but I will need it soon. The Canon XH-A1 is a nice camera and it is also the cheapest of the bunch. It is over a 1000 EURO cheaper then the Z1 and like 800 EURO cheaper then the V1. So from that money, I can buy a lot of accessoires. Furthermore, the footage of the G1 on these boards really impressed me. There maybe was little too much CA in some shots, but every single camera has it's pro's and con's. And I think with the CA, once you start working with the camera, you will learn how to minimize it by choosing angles, focal length etcetera.

The V1 looks really powerful, but the ergonomics are not good in my opinion. The LCD screen blocks many buttons from easy access, and overall speaking, the Canon XH-A1/G1 have more mechanical controls on the outside. I also like the 72mm filter size better then the 62mm of the V1, as well as the XH-A1 being 6mm wider. That said, the V1 has a nice viewfinder and LCD screen. And I always enjoyed using Sony electronics.

Let's see if more V1 footage arrives for a better judgment. If Canon XH-A1 review turn out negative, I might still cancel my pre-order.

Heath McKnight · October 16th, 2006, 08:36 PM

I'd test the V1 and the Canons before buying them, that's just smart.

heath

Floris van Eck · October 16th, 2006, 08:42 PM

The Sony is not out untill December. If the Canon's good, I will buy it. If I was Sony, would make sure there is a terabyte of sample footage on the internet before the Canon's arrive. Just my thoughts.

Mark Fry · October 17th, 2006, 05:37 AM

Z1 vs V1? V1 is smaller, lighter and cheaper, yet its images are reportedly as good as, or better than, those from Z1. Also, less "flare" from sunsets, street lights, etc. and greater exposure latitude reported due to CMOS chips, and HDMI output vs analogue componant. These are not sufficient reasons for most Z1 owners to trade-in, but why would anyone buy a new Z1 now? If the V1 is not quite good enough, maybe wait to see if/when a Z1 Mk2 is launched?

Much more interesting: is the V1 worth the extra price compared to the Canon XH-A1? And is the XH-A1 worth the extra cash compared to the FX7? Until someone gets their hands on production versions of each, I wouldn't go any further...

BTW, everyone's talking about the V1, but not the FX7. Is it just the lack of balanced mic inputs or is there something else that "cripples" the FX7 and makes the V1 worth $1000 extra? I'd have thought that FX7 + Rode VideoMic or BeechTek box and a balanced mic would be a VERY attractive proposition. What can't you do with the FX7. (If it's only 24p that's missing, then that's not going to worry me ;-) - PAL 1080i50 will be perfect for steam trains!)

Steve Mullen · October 17th, 2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

The Sony is not out untill December. If the Canon's good, I will buy it. If I was Sony, would make sure there is a terabyte of sample footage on the internet before the Canon's arrive. Just my thoughts.

I don't think Sony is worried about Canon selling some units. The FX7 will be selling -- and it's going to sell a bunch because many could care less about 24p and see no reason for XLR jacks. The VX1000 had no XLR and with wireless mics -- there's no real reason for them. The built-in FX7 mic is a new design.

Far better to take the time to get the V1 perfect.

Chris Hurd · October 17th, 2006, 06:15 AM

Agreed. Sony has nothing to fear from Canon (or vice versa for that matter). As for a Terabyte of sample footage on the internet... not on this site. I draw the line at Gigabytes.

Floris, let's keep this discussion on topic, please... the subject is the Sony V1 compared to the Sony Z1. Thanks in advance,

Simon Wyndham · October 17th, 2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

PAL 1080i50 will be perfect for steam trains!)

LOL! Which, funnily enough is one of the things I shot with the V1!

Urrr, not that I'm admitting that I like steam trains or anything. There just happened to be one in the immediate vicinity....

Boyd Ostroff · October 17th, 2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Fry

why would anyone buy a new Z1 now?

I bought my Z1 because I needed to shoot in both PAL and NTSC. Faced with the same choice today I'd have to choose another Z1 since the V1 won't meet that requirement. But I agree the V1 is a compelling choice with a lot of nice features I wish my Z1 had.

Stu Holmes · October 17th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

It is over a 1000 EURO cheaper then the Z1 and like 800 EURO cheaper then the V1. So from that money, I can buy a lot of accessoires.

This is simply not correct.
Please see my recent post where i provided concrete prices in Europe (you're in NL) for these cams (below):

So from that you can see the difference at time i posted, and using prices i got is Eur380 which is a long way from your stated Eur800:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

Your quoted prices are a bit off some of the current best prices in Europe.

You can 100% get all of the above for the following prices (Europe dealer, expressed in Euro's at current rates) :
- Canon XH-A1 Eur4000
- Canon XL-H1 Eur8020
- Sony HVR-Z1E Eur4880
- Sony HVR-V1E Eur4380
- Panasonic HVX-200 Eur5750
(taxes included.)
- and even those may not be the best rates in Europe. But they are all concrete prices, at prevailing x-rates, orderable now.

Stu Holmes · October 17th, 2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I'd test the V1 and the Canons before buying them, that's just smart.

heath

Totally agree. Buying something relatively expensive like this it just makes complete sense to "road-test" it as much as possible, even if thats limited to handling it in a store. I wouldnt buy a car i hadn't even sat in, and i certainly wouldnt buy a camcorder i hadn't at least got my hands on.

And in response to another post, the V1 is, apparently, due out in early November in Europe, and not December.
This info i have got from someone who has ordered one and that is the timeframe that they are being told the camera will arrive and be available for him to pick up.
Maybe the timeframe has changed or that info wasn't accurate, but thats what i've heard and i haven't heard about it changing.

Fx7 is shipping AFTER the V1, which is the other way round from the way Sony usually do it.

Floris van Eck · October 17th, 2006, 08:31 AM

The official price for the Sony V1 is 4600 Euro, the official price for the XH-A1 is 4000 Euro. The price you list for the Sony is a streetprice. The price of the A1 is a MSRP. Both will drop, so the XH-A1 will be cheaper. But as Chris already mentioned, this is not the right discussion for that.

And I still do not get it when people are comparing the V1 with the Z1. Totally different category. The Z1 will be replaced by a Z2. And Sony has some gaps to fill up. They need a higher higher end model. With all the professional jacks, outputs and things like 24p and maybe interchangeable lenses. If I had a choice I would wait for the Z2, but I do not have the time to wait that long.

Like I mentioned before, the V1 is still an option. But there is almost no sample footage available. I just hope Sony will allow people with prototypes to post the footage they shoot with them. I do of course appreciate it when Sony is correcting the shortcomings/errors that people discover. It would be great if they release a flawless camera in December.

Bill Pryor · October 17th, 2006, 08:38 AM

The higher end 24p Sony already exists, the XDCAM HD cameras, the F-330 and F350. If they made a 1/3" version it would probably be well over $10K. Sounds to me like you're wishing for the JVC 110.

Stu Holmes · October 17th, 2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

I do of course appreciate it when Sony is correcting the shortcomings/errors that people discover. It would be great if they release a flawless camera in December.

I'm afraid that the Flawless Camera doesn't exist, and it won't ever exist, from any manufacturer.

And the production models will have been boxed up and shipped out prob some time ago. Sea freight from Japan to Europe takes weeks and weeks, so the production models will be in transit now and are what they are - there's no time for any further tweaking to initial production run.
Mild Firmware updates & bug-fixes happen all the time, but these are obviously only applied to models yet to roll off the production line and models that go into a Sony repair shop.

And on the price thing, i agree not on-topic, but my final point on that is street-prices are what people actually pay and therefore this is oibviously the most relevant price-gap. The MSRP could be Eur50,000 and it doesn't matter one bit. What matters is the price you pay and the gap is around Eur400 and not anywhere near Eur800.

October 16th, 2006, 08:19 PM	#31
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	If you need a camera now, get what's best. Personally, out of all the HDV cameras (and I've used all except the Canon A1/G1), the Z1 is the best for my hard-earned money. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 16th, 2006, 08:36 PM	#33
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'd test the V1 and the Canons before buying them, that's just smart. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 17th, 2006, 05:37 AM	#35
Mark Fry Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 425	Z1 vs V1? V1 is smaller, lighter and cheaper, yet its images are reportedly as good as, or better than, those from Z1. Also, less "flare" from sunsets, street lights, etc. and greater exposure latitude reported due to CMOS chips, and HDMI output vs analogue componant. These are not sufficient reasons for most Z1 owners to trade-in, but why would anyone buy a new Z1 now? If the V1 is not quite good enough, maybe wait to see if/when a Z1 Mk2 is launched? Much more interesting: is the V1 worth the extra price compared to the Canon XH-A1? And is the XH-A1 worth the extra cash compared to the FX7? Until someone gets their hands on production versions of each, I wouldn't go any further... BTW, everyone's talking about the V1, but not the FX7. Is it just the lack of balanced mic inputs or is there something else that "cripples" the FX7 and makes the V1 worth $1000 extra? I'd have thought that FX7 + Rode VideoMic or BeechTek box and a balanced mic would be a VERY attractive proposition. What can't you do with the FX7. (If it's only 24p that's missing, then that's not going to worry me ;-) - PAL 1080i50 will be perfect for steam trains!) __________________ Steam Age Pictures - videos in aid of railway preservation societies.

October 17th, 2006, 06:15 AM	#37
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Agreed. Sony has nothing to fear from Canon (or vice versa for that matter). As for a Terabyte of sample footage on the internet... not on this site. I draw the line at Gigabytes. Floris, let's keep this discussion on topic, please... the subject is the Sony V1 compared to the Sony Z1. Thanks in advance, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 16th, 2006, 08:26 PM	#32
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I won't need it now, but I will need it soon. The Canon XH-A1 is a nice camera and it is also the cheapest of the bunch. It is over a 1000 EURO cheaper then the Z1 and like 800 EURO cheaper then the V1. So from that money, I can buy a lot of accessoires. Furthermore, the footage of the G1 on these boards really impressed me. There maybe was little too much CA in some shots, but every single camera has it's pro's and con's. And I think with the CA, once you start working with the camera, you will learn how to minimize it by choosing angles, focal length etcetera. The V1 looks really powerful, but the ergonomics are not good in my opinion. The LCD screen blocks many buttons from easy access, and overall speaking, the Canon XH-A1/G1 have more mechanical controls on the outside. I also like the 72mm filter size better then the 62mm of the V1, as well as the XH-A1 being 6mm wider. That said, the V1 has a nice viewfinder and LCD screen. And I always enjoyed using Sony electronics. Let's see if more V1 footage arrives for a better judgment. If Canon XH-A1 review turn out negative, I might still cancel my pre-order.

October 16th, 2006, 08:42 PM	#34
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	The Sony is not out untill December. If the Canon's good, I will buy it. If I was Sony, would make sure there is a terabyte of sample footage on the internet before the Canon's arrive. Just my thoughts.

October 17th, 2006, 08:31 AM	#42
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	The official price for the Sony V1 is 4600 Euro, the official price for the XH-A1 is 4000 Euro. The price you list for the Sony is a streetprice. The price of the A1 is a MSRP. Both will drop, so the XH-A1 will be cheaper. But as Chris already mentioned, this is not the right discussion for that. And I still do not get it when people are comparing the V1 with the Z1. Totally different category. The Z1 will be replaced by a Z2. And Sony has some gaps to fill up. They need a higher higher end model. With all the professional jacks, outputs and things like 24p and maybe interchangeable lenses. If I had a choice I would wait for the Z2, but I do not have the time to wait that long. Like I mentioned before, the V1 is still an option. But there is almost no sample footage available. I just hope Sony will allow people with prototypes to post the footage they shoot with them. I do of course appreciate it when Sony is correcting the shortcomings/errors that people discover. It would be great if they release a flawless camera in December.

October 17th, 2006, 08:38 AM	#43
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	The higher end 24p Sony already exists, the XDCAM HD cameras, the F-330 and F350. If they made a 1/3" version it would probably be well over $10K. Sounds to me like you're wishing for the JVC 110.